Hansard 12/06/2018

STATES OF JERSEY

 

OFFICIAL REPORT

 

TUESDAY, 12th JUNE 2018

 

COMMUNICATIONS BY THE PRESIDING OFFICER

1.Obligation of Members to attend meetings of the Assembly

The Bailiff:

APPOINTMENT OF MINISTERS, COMMITTEES AND PANELS

2.Appointment of the President of the Chairmen’s Committee

2.1Senator S.C. Ferguson:

3.Appointment of the members of the Privileges and Procedures Committee

3.1Deputy R. Labey of St. Helier (Chairman, Privileges and Procedures Committee):

4.Appointment of the elected members of the Public Accounts Committee

4.1Senator S.C. Ferguson (Chairman, Public Accounts Committee):

5.Appointment of the members of the Economic Affairs Scrutiny Panel

5.1Deputy K.F. Morel of St. Lawrence (Chairman, Economic Affairs Scrutiny Panel):

6.Appointment of the members of the Education and Home Affairs Scrutiny Panel

6.1Deputy R. Ward of St. Helier (Chairman, Education and Home Affairs Scrutiny Panel):

7.Appointment of the members of the Environment, Housing and Infrastructure Scrutiny Panel

7.1Connétable A.S. Crowcroft of St. Helier (Chairman, Environment, Housing and Infrastructure Scrutiny Panel):

8.Appointment of the members of the Health and Social Security Scrutiny Panel

8.1Deputy M.R. Le Hegarat of St. Helier (Chairman, Health and Social Security Scrutiny Panel):

9.Appointment of members of the Planning Committee

9.1Deputy R. Labey (Chairman, Planning Committee):

10.Appointment of 2 States Commissioners of the Jersey Overseas Aid Commission

10.1Deputy C.F. Labey of Grouville (Chairman, Jersey Overseas Aid Commission):

ARRANGEMENT OF PUBLIC BUSINESS

11.Deputy R. Labey (Chairman, Privileges and Procedures Committee):

11.1Senator I.J. Gorst:

11.2Senator T.A. Vallois:

11.3Deputy M. Tadier of St. Brelade:

11.3.1Deputy R. Labey:

11.4Deputy J.H. Young of St. Brelade:

11.4.1Deputy S.J. Pinel of St. Clement:

11.5Senator I.J. Gorst:

11.6Connétable D.W. Mezbourian of St. Lawrence:

11.6.1Deputy M. Tadier:

ADJOURNMENT


[9:31]

The Roll was called and the Dean led the Assembly in Prayer.

 

COMMUNICATIONS BY THE PRESIDING OFFICER

1.Obligation of Members to attend meetings of the Assembly

The Bailiff:

It is worth emphasising that the oath taken by all Members is to attend meetings of the Assembly and I think perhaps in the past we have been fairly kind in marking Members défaut excuse, but clearly if there is a medical appointment or something of that kind or sometimes a funeral that one has to go to that is something different, but I cannot emphasise enough the obligations to attend.  Now, having got that out of the way, can I welcome His Excellency.  [Approbation]  There is nothing else under A. 

 

APPOINTMENT OF MINISTERS, COMMITTEES AND PANELS

The Bailiff:

We now come to F: the Appointment of Ministers, Committees and Panels, and the first is the appointment of a President of the Chairmens Committee.

2.Appointment of the President of the Chairmens Committee

2.1Senator S.C. Ferguson:

Because one of our members is not here at the moment, we have not been able to reach a conclusion about who to put forward as the president of the Chairmens Committee and I wonder if we could call upon the goodwill of the Assembly and do it next week or at the next States sitting.

The Bailiff:

On 26th June.  Do Members agree?  26th June. 

 

3.Appointment of the members of the Privileges and Procedures Committee

3.1Deputy R. Labey of St. Helier (Chairman, Privileges and Procedures Committee):

Because the Chairmens Committee has not informed me of their nominated representative on to P.P.C. (Privileges and Procedures Committee), and neither has the Chief Minister informed me of his 2 representatives on to P.P.C., I cannot compile the committee and present it to the States today and, as with the last one could I ask that I do so - if it is in order - at the next sitting of the States?

The Bailiff:

Under Standing Orders you have the right to nominate 3 elected Members, I think there is a quorum of 4, so you could get your own way for the next 3 weeks.

Deputy R. Labey:

I wish I had thought of that.

The Bailiff:

Do Members agree to put this off?  Deferred to 26th June.

 

4.Appointment of the elected members of the Public Accounts Committee

4.1Senator S.C. Ferguson (Chairman, Public Accounts Committee):

I would like to propose the Deputy of St. Peter and Deputy Alves as my elected Members, in no particular order.

The Bailiff:

Do you only wish to have 2?

Senator S.C. Ferguson:

At the moment, yes.

The Bailiff:

Are there any other nominations?  Very well, then I declare them to be elected to the Public Accounts Committee.  [Approbation]  Next we come to the members of Scrutiny Panels, the first is the Economic Affairs Scrutiny Panel.

 

5.Appointment of the members of the Economic Affairs Scrutiny Panel

5.1Deputy K.F. Morel of St. Lawrence (Chairman, Economic Affairs Scrutiny Panel):

I would like to propose the Deputy of St. Mary, Deputy Wickenden and Deputy Pamplin to serve on the Economic Affairs Scrutiny Panel.

The Bailiff:

Again, you only wish to have 3 members elected with you?  Very well, are there any other nominations?  Then I declare the Deputy of St. Mary and Wickenden and Deputy Pamplin to be elected as members of the Economic Affairs Scrutiny Panel.  [Approbation] 

 

6.Appointment of the members of the Education and Home Affairs Scrutiny Panel

6.1Deputy R. Ward of St. Helier (Chairman, Education and Home Affairs Scrutiny Panel):

I would like to nominate the Constable of St. Helier, the Deputy of St. Peter, the Deputy of St. John and Deputy Perchard.

[9:45]

The Bailiff:

Are there any other nominations?  Very well, then I declare the Connétable of St. Mary, the Deputy of St. Peter, the Deputy of St. John and Deputy Perchard to members of the Education and Home Affairs Scrutiny Panel.  [Approbation]

Connétable J. Le Bailly of St. Mary:

Sir, correction please, it was the Constable of St. Helier, not myself.

The Bailiff:

I am so sorry, I remember that and I wrote down you.  The Connétable of St. Helier is elected. 

 

7.Appointment of the members of the Environment, Housing and Infrastructure Scrutiny Panel

7.1Connétable A.S. Crowcroft of St. Helier (Chairman, Environment, Housing and Infrastructure Scrutiny Panel):

I would be pleased to propose the following as members of the Environment, Housing and Infrastructure Scrutiny Panel; Connétable Le Sueur-Rennard, Connétable Le Maistre and Deputy Truscott and Deputy Morel.

The Bailiff:

Are there any other nominations?  Then I declare the Connétables of St. Saviour and Grouville and Deputies Truscott and Morel to be appointed to the Environment, Housing and Infrastructure Panel.  [Approbation] 

 

8.Appointment of the members of the Health and Social Security Scrutiny Panel

8.1Deputy M.R. Le Hegarat of St. Helier (Chairman, Health and Social Security Scrutiny Panel):

I would like to propose the Deputy of St. John, Deputy Alves and Deputy Pamplin.

The Bailiff:

Are there any other nominations?  Then I declare the Deputy of St. John, Deputy Alves and Deputy Pamplin to be appointed to the Health and Social Security Scrutiny Panel.  [Approbation]  Strict informative Standing Orders, given that nobody else was standing, I can assume that at least one Member would wish to second each of those nominations. 

 

9.Appointment of members of the Planning Committee

The Bailiff:

We now come to the appointment of Members of the Planning Committee.  Chairman, how many Members do you wish to have?  Under Standing Orders not less than 3, not more than 9.

9.1Deputy R. Labey (Chairman, Planning Committee):

I would like to propose 8 Members of the committee including myself at this time, and I hope to come back with an additional Member because I would like the full 9 if I can get them.

The Bailiff:

Your 7 are?

Deputy R. Labey:

My 7 are: Deputy Truscott of St. Brelade, Deputy Maçon of St. Saviour, Deputy Rondel of St. Helier, Deputy Wickenden of St. Helier, Constable Mezbourian of St. Lawrence, Constable Shenton-Stone of St. Martin and Deputy Huelin of St. Peter.

The Bailiff:

Are those nominations seconded[Seconded]  Are there any other nominations?

Deputy K.F. Morel:

I just want to check; I understand it is not possible to serve on both the Environment, Housing and Infrastructure Panel and also the Planning Committee, is that correct?

The Bailiff:

That is not in Standing Orders but it sounds right.  It is in Standing Orders, a different part of Standing Orders.  That is correct, Deputy.  It is Standing Order 141A, which was inserted more recently: An elected Member cannot be a member of the Planning Committee if he or she is also a member of the Scrutiny Panel described in 135(1)(d), which is that particular panel.

Deputy G.J. Truscott of St. Brelade:

On that basis, if I could withdraw from that committee?  Not the Planning, the Housing Panel.

The Bailiff:

That must be right, Deputy, thank you.  You have to find 2, chairman.

Deputy R. Labey:

I think that Deputy Truscott was wanting to withdraw from the Scrutiny Panel, not the Planning Committee.

The Bailiff:

I see.  Then we will take it you have just resigned from the Scrutiny Panel.  Thank you very much.  [Laughter]  Having just been appointed.  Are there any other nominations to the Planning Committee?  Very well, then I declare that Deputies Truscott, Maçon, Rondel, Wickenden, the Connétables of St. Lawrence and St. Martin, and the Deputy of St. Peter to be appointed to the Planning Committee.  [Approbation]  There are to be 2 States Commissioners appointed to the Jersey Overseas Aid Commission. 

 

10.Appointment of 2 States Commissioners of the Jersey Overseas Aid Commission

10.1Deputy C.F. Labey of Grouville (Chairman, Jersey Overseas Aid Commission):

I would like to propose the Constable of Trinity to join Deputies Martin and myself as the States Members of the Overseas Aid Committee.

The Bailiff:

Sorry, I heard about half of that.  The Connétable of Trinity?

The Deputy of Grouville:

I would like to propose the Constable of Trinity, Philip Le Sueur, who will join existing Members, Deputy Martin, who would like to serve another term, and myself.

The Bailiff:

You are proposing Deputy Martin and the Connétable of Trinity?

The Deputy of Grouville:

Yes.

The Bailiff:

Do Members agree to make those appointments?  Thank you.  Then I declare that the Connétable of Trinity and Deputy Martin have been appointed as States Commissioners.  [Approbation] 

 

ARRANGEMENT OF PUBLIC BUSINESS

11.Deputy R. Labey (Chairman, Privileges and Procedures Committee):

In the light of the Privileges and Procedures Committee not being constituted until 26th June and is at the moment due to bring P.76 - Draft Referendum (Presidency of States Assembly) (Jersey) Act - on that day, I request that P.76 be deferred to the following States sitting.  Other than that it is as published and I think Members should be prepared for a 2-day sitting, if not a 3-day, but definitely a 2-day sitting.

The Bailiff:

Any questions of the Chairman? 

11.1Senator I.J. Gorst:

Members will be aware that there is quite a substantial amount of business, which I lodged, which now becomes the business of the new Chief Minister.  He is not here today.  I understand that some of that business he would like to defer.  I think that we should at least defer - and I ask the Assembly to do so - the Draft Access to Justice and associated pieces of legislation because I am not aware that the supplementary work that they require has been completed.

The Bailiff:

You say that P.50 is the Draft Access to Justice Law.  Is there anything else?

Senator I.J. Gorst:

I think that is the only one.  I am happy in my new role to take the financial services ones, so I do not think there is any need to defer them.  I just put on notice that Members may receive correspondence from the new Chief Minister asking for other items to be deferred in due course as well.

The Bailiff:

So you are asking the Access to Justice to be deferred to 10th July or further out?

Senator I.J. Gorst:

I think September realistically.

The Bailiff:

So it will be listed on 11th September.  They will have to be re-lodged if it goes back to September.

Senator I.J. Gorst:

I sense there is a certain inevitability about that with a new Chief Minister anyway, so I do not see that is a great problem.

11.2Senator T.A. Vallois:

Can I ask the Assembly if we can move P.78 to 10th July meeting?  It is an acquisition of land by the public.  It is with regards to Les Quennevais School, and I just want to be fully briefed and understand the complete roundings of that as the new Minister for Education.

11.3Deputy M. Tadier of St. Brelade:

I may be on thin ice, but may I ask whether the Assembly might consider moving P.76 - the referendum question - to the sitting of 11th September.  There is only one item currently listed there.  It seems to me that P.P.C. will need to get time to get its feet under the table to fully think about the issue and to issue a briefing paper as well as consultations with especially new States Members.  But I am in the hands of the Assembly and of the Chairman.

11.3.1Deputy R. Labey:

If I can assist, if we are to have the referendum on the date specified in the proposition, it would need to be passed by this Assembly before the recess, otherwise it would be a new proposition.

11.4Deputy J.H. Young of St. Brelade:

Could I ask the new Minister for Treasury and Resources whether or not she is content that P.72 - Directors of the S.o.J.D.C. (States of Jersey Development Company) - can remain so early in the proceedings, is it necessary to do it on that date?

11.4.1Deputy S.J. Pinel of St. Clement:

I would not know whether the new appointments I think they are extensions of current appointments, but I do not know whether, if it was postponed, that would leave the S.o.J.D.C. short of members.  I would have to get back to you.

The Bailiff:

May I suggest you look at that and consider it and it can always be deferred if that is the right thing to do at the beginning of the next meeting.

Deputy S.J. Pinel:

Yes, thank you.

11.5Senator I.J. Gorst:

I do think that Deputy Tadier has made a good point.  Because we do not now have a P.P.C., I am not sure how, between now and the first ordinary sitting of the States, we will then appoint P.P.C.  We seem to be in a little bit of a chicken and egg situation, requiring advice, comments, from P.P.C. and a direction from them and yet that committee will not be in place until the 26th, the very day we are due to debate the referendum.

The Bailiff:

It has been deferred until 10th July.

Senator I.J. Gorst:

I do apologise.

11.6Connétable D.W. Mezbourian of St. Lawrence:

The Comité des Connétables is intending to bring an amendment to P.76 - the Referendum (Presidency) debate - and I am afraid it has not been made clear to me when we are going to have this debate.  The amendment by the Comité is intended to bring the date forward from that proposed in P.76.

The Bailiff:

From before October? That would be debated with the main proposition, at the moment, on 10th July.

11.6.1Deputy M. Tadier:

May I ask a question following on from that?  The Constable said that a decision had been made by the Constables to bring an amendment, but have the Comité des Connétables met in this new term?

The Connétable of St. Lawrence:

Yes, we met yesterday when I was elected as chairman of the Comité.  [Approbation]

Deputy M. Tadier:

May I congratulate her on her appointment then and the speed at which they work.  [Laughter]

The Bailiff:

Nothing else?  Very well, the agenda is now set and the States stand adjourned until 9.30 a.m. on 26th June.

ADJOURNMENT

[9:59]

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