Before you move to order, I wonder if I could just ask a brief question with regards timing. Having looked at the Order Paper it seems that perhaps the appointment of the Scrutiny Panel chair may take a little longer than it was anticipated and this has a knock-on effect on questions without notice. I have to leave the Assembly unfortunately at lunchtime so I was going to ask the Assembly if they would be happy for me to take my questions first, if we get to that point before lunch.

The Bailiff:

So in questions without notice you would like to go first as opposed to third, Chief Minister?

Deputy K.L. Moore:

If that is possible, Sir, otherwise Deputy Morel, the Deputy Chief Minister, will oblige.

The Bailiff:

It does seem rather a hostage to fortune for Deputy Morel but this has to be a matter for the Assembly because it is a reordering of business. Do you wish to make that proposition and we will take a very quick ...

Deputy K.L. Moore:

Yes, please.

The Bailiff:

Is it seconded? [Seconded] Does anyone wish to speak? All those in favour of allowing the change in the order please show. Those against? Deputy Morel, you live to fight another day.

Male Speaker:

May I lift the défaut on Deputy Alves?

The Bailiff:

Yes, the défaut is lifted on Deputy Alves.

APPOINTMENT OF MINISTERS, COMMITTEES AND PANELS

1. Nomination for the Chair of the Health and Social Security Scrutiny Panel

The Bailiff:

We now come to item F, which is the appointment of a new chair of the Health and Social Security Panel, and the nomination of members to join that panel. Members will note that, as it states on the Order Paper, the timing of the appointment of members to the panel will be subject to the wishes of the newly elected chair, when that person is identified and indeed confirmation subsequently by the Assembly. Therefore it may take place immediately after the appointment of a new chair or it may take place later in the meeting, if that is possible, or indeed at the meeting in April. It will not necessarily follow straight after the election of a chair. Can I remind Members that neither the Minister for Social Security nor the Minister for Health and Social Services can make or second a nomination and neither will be able to vote, if any vote is required. In accordance with Standing Order 120(1), I therefore invite nominations for candidates to the position of chair of the Health and Social Security Scrutiny Panel.

Male Speaker:

I would like to nominate Deputy Rob Ward.

The Bailiff:

Deputy Rob Ward. Is that nomination seconded? [Seconded] Are there any other nominations?

Deputy B. Ward of St. Clement:

I would like to nominate Deputy Bailhache.

The Bailiff:

Is that nomination seconded? [Seconded] Are there any other nominations? Then we move on to a selection process. The position now is that in accordance with Standing Order 120(3), I will invite the candidates to speak and answer questions in the order in which they were nominated, hence Deputy Rob Ward first. Candidates will be able to speak for up to 10 minutes and then Members will have up to 20 minutes to ask them questions. The Greffier will ring a bell when the candidate has been speaking for 9 minutes and then again to signal when the time is up. The Greffier will also ring a bell when there has been 20 minutes of questions. Is there a bell?

The Greffier of the States:

Yes.

The Bailiff:

Having said that I thought I better check. When all candidates have made speeches and answered questions then we will take a recorded vote and the candidate who receives more than half the votes cast will be appointed. We will of course be able to use the electronic voting and I will explain how that will work. But I would ask now Deputy Bailhache to withdraw from the Chamber. A member of the Greffe staff will escort you to a room downstairs, as the Standing Orders provide, and you will withdraw to a place where you cannot hear the proceedings. Then I call upon Deputy Ward to speak for up to a 10 minutes.

1.1 Deputy R.J. Ward of St. Helier Central:

I am standing as chair of the Health and Social Security Panel to offer my experience as a Scrutiny chair, my experience of working across this Assembly on Scrutiny Panels and my leadership skills that come from many years of leadership experience. The process of scrutiny is vital for good governance and I use the word “governance” on purpose. Scrutiny is an essential check on the work of Government and the professional connection between this Assembly and the wider decision-making processes of Government. I have chaired the Children, Education and Home Affairs Panel I the previous Assembly, which included scrutiny of 3 Ministerial roles. It was also at a time when there was significant movement of Ministerial positions for several reasons. I counted 6 different Ministers during this time. But throughout I chaired the panel and remained credible, constructive and challenging scrutiny. I am proud to have formed working relationships with every Minister in the role. I can also proudly state that I demonstrate the ability to work with Members from across the Assembly, both as chair and on several other panels with which I have been involved. I have worked with - and this is where I miss somebody out so I hope I have not - Deputy Morel, Deputy Ahier, Deputy Le Hegarat, Deputy Moore, along with Constable Vibert, Jackson, Johnson, Crowcroft, Constable Jehan as well I believe on one of the panels, and from the current Assembly I am working with Deputy Luce, Deputy Andrews and Deputy Farnham. I also worked with Members who are not in the current Assembly but from very different political backgrounds. I mention this because the key to good scrutiny is to leave political allegiances at the door and to undertake evidence-driven scrutiny. It is when this is performed well that credible reports and recommendations are made and Government is truly accountable. The 2 Ministers this panel scrutinises have very difficult roles. I fully accept that. But the roles are also vital to the Island and need to be got right. For effective evidence-based and detailed scrutiny the panel can act as a vital check and balance. The best scrutiny happens when relationships work. Ministers must listen to credible well-researched scrutiny that produces constructive, yet challenging comments papers and meaningful recommendations. I remind the Assembly that Scrutiny has no power to force Ministers to accept recommendations, only the credibility of its work. I want Ministers to go away from meetings and hearings thinking that they have areas to think about in order that we do not pass poor legislation and make ill-informed decisions in this Assembly. It is this Assembly that will make the most of those final decisions. What is my experience? I have already mentioned the chair of the Children, Education and Home Affairs Panel. I was also a member of the Brexit Review Panel, the Future Hospital Panel, Legal Aid Review Panel, the OneGov Panel and I chaired the Safer Travel Review Panel during the very difficult times of Covid.

[9:45]

I also sat on the Scrutiny Liaison Committee and so have significant experience of the oversight of Scrutiny. With all these panels I worked with Members from across the Assembly who have very different views on many areas but throughout I found common ground. This enabled me to do some excellent work and undertake some excellent reviews and produce meaningful and focused reports. I have a keen and analytical mind. I believe that previous colleagues from panels will recognise that I prepare thoroughly and look to the detail of legislation and proposition as a key part of the process of effective scrutiny. I have chaired many meetings in Scrutiny and adopt an organised and inclusive approach. Equally I would expect panel members to adopt the same professional approach in preparing for meetings. All members can speak and lead questioning. This is vital to ensure that any perceived biased is addressed. This means that Ministers cannot dismiss recommendations, comments and amendments due to ineffective process. This gives credibility to Scrutiny and the decisions brought to this Assembly. I have a positive relationship with all Members of this Assembly. We may disagree but I hope I will take time to ask about Members’ well-being, and this is certainly vital for chairing a Scrutiny Panel. I would like to address the well-being of Scrutiny officers and those from the government office. We have a duty of care to all members of our workforce. I take this seriously and no one should feel that their work and their role is undervalued or feel unhappy in the work that they do. This care adds to the effectiveness of Scrutiny as it enables skilled people to do their work and provide the vital support that the panels need. Health and Social Security are both vital and challenging Ministries. The decisions made have repercussions for many people and for many years to come. Therefore, the essential stage of scrutiny of decision-making must be effective, it must be constructive and it must have credibility in its work. I have given this credibility to all the Scrutiny work I have undertaken. I have undertaken some very challenging work in my time. The review into the repercussions of the Care Inquiry was one of the most difficult pieces of work I have ever undertaken in this Assembly. With my colleagues across the Assembly, it took a huge amount of time and a huge amount of energy from all of us and quite rightly we should invest that energy. I dealt with the pressures and the personalities that come with work across the Assembly. The key is to have clear parameters for work and high expectations of professional and considerate behaviour. Put it simply, good manners are vital. I have undertaken training in mediation as a union president and undertook many difficult conversations and meetings as a case worker throughout my time in that role. A transferable skill I bring to this position. I offer experience to the Assembly. I offer experience from my work life before I undertook my role in this Assembly and I offer the willingness to address the difficult issues, the difficult conversations and to do so with positivity and care. We all face difficult situations in our time. I certainly have recently. But we come through the other side and we move forward. Looking back is not a good idea. I was listening to the radio on Sunday and I just remembered who it was, and now it is going to be very difficult to do this without doing the voice, but I will not. I was listening to Michael Caine reading his autobiography and he talked about what he says to his grandchildren and he says to them, and I am not going to do the voice although you will hear it in your head: “Don’t look back, you will trip over.” I think they are wise words indeed. So I ask the Assembly to look forward, consider the experience I have, the commitment I have shown and the skills I bring. I ask you to give me your vote. I thank you for listening and I will look forward to questions.

The Bailiff:

There are now 20 minutes of questions.

1.1.1 Deputy M.R. Scott of St. Brelade:

This situation has come about following a dispute between a Reform member and professional women on his panel, which was not sought to be resolved by independent mediation. Could the Deputy please comment on this and whether he considers professional training in ethics, conflict of interest management and respect of personal boundaries of States Members to be essential, perhaps even compulsory, for Scrutiny members?

Deputy R.J. Ward:

I thank the Deputy for her question. I think we need to look forward. Looking back on the situation is not a good idea. However, I would say a few things. I personally feel that we have a Commissioner for Standards that should be used if there are situations that arise. Then we need to listen to the outcomes from that Commissioner of Standards otherwise we, as an Assembly, are not using those facilities appropriately. In terms of training, I absolutely agree with the Deputy. I have, through my role as chair of the C.P.A. (Commonwealth Parliamentary Association), tried to push for training. I was recently in London at the headquarters of C.P.A. talking to them about what their academy offers. I know that we have some tailored training being developed for us on-Island but we should use every single resource that we can for States Members. One of the things that we need to have as States Members is the ability to develop the skills that we have further, both for our role in this Assembly and our role beyond that Assembly. So, yes, I would support that and I think it is very important. If I have missed any parts of your question please let me know because I failed to write it down.

1.1.2 Deputy M.R. Scott:

Just would he support this training being compulsory for Scrutiny members?

Deputy R.J. Ward:

That is a really good question. Compulsory is a difficult thing to have. I would say the simplest way to address this is to deal with that sort of training as a development of our own professionalism, and we should all be professional in this Assembly. I have no problem with saying there are mandatory, and I would use that phrase to the Deputy, training modules that need to be undertaken by States Members for your own well-being, for your own good. For example, safeguarding. But time has to be made for those and the facilities have to be made for those to be appropriate. I have no problem with mandatory training. However I believe that is a question for P.P.C. (Privileges and Procedures Committee) and also a question for S.L.C. (Scrutiny Liaison Committee) to work together. I believe they may already be doing that.

1.1.3 Deputy K.F. Morel of St. John, St. Lawrence and Trinity:

I just wondering, in his speech the Deputy quite rightly referred to the complexity of the 2 portfolios that the panel scrutinises. Would he be able to provide the Assembly with a rough overview perhaps, that might be asking too much, but what are the areas he would particularly like to review? What does he think are particularly important for the Scrutiny Panel to review over the next 3 years?

Deputy R.J. Ward:

It follows on from a theme and it is about transparency. I perceived in the last 14 years that Scrutiny has tended to do more and more meetings in private when there is no reason for doing them in private. Does the candidate believe that the underlying principle of Scrutiny, particularly for collecting evidence, is that it should be done in a public forum where it can be scrutinised by the public?

Deputy R.J. Ward:

A really good question. If there is anything positive to have come out of the last few years it is the fact that we are better with broadcasting online. So therefore a physical presence in meetings is not as necessary. That gives the opportunity to open up Scrutiny and those meetings and those evidence-gathering to a wider audience to have that public record. I think one has to be sensitive though to some Members who would not want to give evidence in public because of the nature of what they are talking about. I know, for example, when the review into mental health was undertaken there were some really challenging pieces of evidence given that would not want to be made in public. I know when we undertook the Care of Children Review Panel there was some evidence that people would not have wanted to be given in public. Also, I would say that Scrutiny cannot simply be used as a method to get a message across. There needs to be some parameters for it so that it has credibility across the Assembly and can have an influence on Ministers and Government. There is a balance to be found but, yes, I am more than open to more transparency in that arena.

1.1.8 Connétable M.K. Jackson of St. Brelade:

The cost of caring for the elderly and the provision thereof is a subject of considerable concern for a lot of families who are involved. Would the candidate give Members his views on how the elderly should be better cared for in the Island?

Deputy R.J. Ward:

I say again, it is for the Minister to drive policy so I am not standing here as a Minister, I am here as a Scrutiny Panel candidate chair. In terms of care of the elderly, yes, that is an issue that we face and there are a number of issues in that arena. First of all is the cost, the provision of carers, and we get back to the recruitment and retention issue, which I think we need to look at very urgently within healthcare. We need to look at the way that income support and social security look to support those people, to provide that safety net into old age, and we need to look ... I believe one of the things that the Scrutiny Panel can do is to look at what is the genuine provision of care on this Island? What is actually available? Because I wonder whether we have a clear picture of that and an extrapolation into the next 5, 10, 15, 20 years. I think that is one of the areas for Scrutiny Panels to look at, that provision and where it will be. I think in terms of the Scrutiny Panel, that is as much as I would say at the moment. I hope that answers some of the question.

1.1.9 The Connétable of St. Brelade:

Would the candidate consider, should he be elected, that it would be a topic for review in early course?

Deputy R.J. Ward:

Yes, certainly. One of the things I think we do not use enough in Scrutiny - I think I have had this conversation with the Constable in the panel - is the review panel itself. So, if you like, a sub-review panel. That is an opportunity to draw from across the Assembly to say there is a specific topic here that we want to review. You can be seconded on to that panel to act as that review. It also gives members of the panel an opportunity to lead a review perhaps they have not done before, and that can be put back as a sub-panel under the review. That may be an ideal opportunity for that because where people might not want to be involved entirely all of the time in a panel, there may be a topic that they want to get involved in and bring knowledge, experience to that panel. That is one of the things I think we can do. It also enables a wider expansion of the panel’s work in a much more manageable way because taking on 2 or 3 reviews at the same time is simply not manageable for the panel but with a sub-panel that can be managed. We have managed to do that with the education panel previously, I think it was in the Covid response to children that was led by Deputy Doublet at the time. So there are opportunities to do that.

1.1.10 Deputy K.F. Morel:

It was just to ask, obviously Deputy Ward chaired the Education, Children and Home Affairs Panel last time and I was just wondering ... I know he picked out some pieces in the speech but during that work what did he find the most challenging and perhaps what did he think was the most valuable to the Assembly?

Deputy R.J. Ward:

I am sorry I did not vote against the ... a really good question: what was the most challenging? I think the most challenging was the Care of Children Review into address and accountability. It was a really sensitive area. It required a huge amount of work for the number of different stakeholders. If I am absolutely honest, I am not sure if the outcome was as detailed as we want because it got towards the end of the term as well. I am very proud of the work that we did on retention and recruitment and the recommendations we made there. I was also very pleased with some of the work we did with the Children’s Commissioner. One of the most challenging parts was when the Children’s Commissioner wanted access to particular information and what we had to do, and it was via the panel, that we managed to come with a ... now I cannot remember what it was called. It was called sort of an agreement, a protocol of how that information would be accessed, where all sides agreed, came up with a way in which that could work. I do not think it has had to be used yet, I do not know - I probably would not know - but that was a very difficult and challenging thing to be able to do but we managed it with the panel. We managed it with the panel with very different people. I did promise myself that I would not say, but to give an example, Deputy Huelin was on the panel and he is very, very different from me. Very, very different. He would say that himself. But we managed to work together and we managed to work and get outcomes from that. I think that is a really important point to be made. In terms of other challenges, there was a challenge of so many changes of Minister, some of which were really sad reasons why. So we had to build a new relationship with the Minister but again I was very proud ... I am actually most pleased with the relationship that we built with Deputy Guida who at one and the same time, I think I would like to say this. I can remember Deputy Guida sitting I think where Deputy Coles is, it might be behind, and saying that he was the archenemy of Reform. I remember this bizarre debate that went on and the next day we were in the Scrutiny Panel and we were agreeing on a way forward on a very specific piece of legislation because it was left outside. I may have had disagreements with Deputy Guida but he did leave that outside as well. That is the way Scrutiny needs to work. This Assembly is perhaps the place for us to have our disagreements but we need to do more. Those are the challenges. Some worked very well, some I think better outcomes and recommendations. The other thing I would say to Government is there are still lots of recommendations left outstanding and let us please try to look at some of those from the last Assembly because some of them were really good, particularly in the Children, Education and Home Affairs Panel. But I am biased.

The Bailiff:

Does any other Member wish to ask any question of the candidate? No other Member wishes to ask the candidate then, with about 30 seconds ago, I close the question period. I would ask if Deputy Bailhache could be invited to re-join us in the Chamber and if you, Deputy Ward, could leave the Chamber in the company of an officer of the Greffe to enter sequestration for a period. Deputy Bailhache, may I invite you to address the Assembly for up to 10 minutes?

1.2 Deputy P.M. Bailhache of St. Clement:

I am not going to make a long speech because I hope that Members will be aware from the no confidence debate 3 weeks ago what my approach to Scrutiny is and what it is not. Some things however do bear repetition. All Scrutiny Panels should at all times obey the code of conduct for States Members. The Scrutiny and Public Accounts Committee Code of Practice and the Code of Practice for Engagement between Scrutiny Panel and the Executive. All Members should treat each other and government officials and indeed anyone appearing before the panel with respect and always behave in a professional manner. I would ensure, as chair, that those rules were followed, and I will come back to that in a moment. A vote of no confidence is never a very pleasant affair but my intention, if elected, would be to put all that firmly behind us. The work of the Health and Social Security Panel is too important to be affected by disagreements of the past. I would, if elected, and subject to their agreement, intend to reconstitute the panel as it was constituted before, but without the former chair. I retract nothing of what I said during the debate, including my view that the relationship between the panel and the Minister for Health and Social Services is not broken or beyond repair. Since the debate I have met the Minister and we had a very constructive and useful discussion, in my view. I think we will have no difficulty in working together for the good of the health service and indeed for the good of the Island. I do not promise that there will never be tense moments but if everyone is committed to seeking the best solutions for Jersey one cannot go far wrong. The health service is clearly in a difficult place at the moment for a number of reasons, and the need for a strong relationship between the Minister and her officials and the Scrutiny Panel is self-evident. I hope that a Scrutiny Panel, which I chaired, would truly be a critical friend. In the sphere of Social Security there are issues that are probably of equal importance in the context particularly of primary care, and the need for a substantial increase in the level of medical benefit, which has remained static for far too long.

[10:15]

It is very encouraging that the Minister for Social Security has expressed an intention to recommend an increase in the level of benefit so that contributors to the Health Insurance Fund, members of the public, can more affordably access a general practitioner. I would hope that the panel can play a part in that process. May I just conclude by repeating the views I expressed during the recent debate about the nature of Scrutiny. Scrutiny is quite often conducted in the nature of a conversation where information is obtained through informal exchanges. But sometimes it is necessary to be a little more robust. Firm or persistent questioning is occasionally in order. Asking difficult questions of senior officials is not bullying. As the Chief Minister said on another occasion, stirring things up is a way of describing holding others to account. I hope that my Scrutiny Panel would occasionally and, if necessary, stir things up but never in a rude or disrespectful way. I submit my nomination to the Assembly.

The Bailiff:

There is now a period of 20 minutes to this candidate.

1.2.1 Deputy M.R. Scott:

Could the Deputy please comment on the use of independent mediation to help resolve disputes between members before the chairman seeks their resignation, and could he please comment on whether he considers professional training in ethics, conflict of interest management and respect of personal boundaries of States Members to have compulsory training in this for Scrutiny members?

Deputy P.M. Bailhache:

I think that mediation can sometimes be a very sensible and practical way of resolving differences. Certainly when I occupied another position I was instrumental in introducing, in the context of petty debts, a system of mediation which has taken away much of the business of the Petty Debts Court in relation to small claims. But in relation to mediation it does generally take 2 to tango. Mediation can only be successful if both parties to the dispute enter the process with some willingness to co-operate and to compromise in order to reach a solution. In relation to training, I think was the second part of the Deputy’s question. I would have hoped that most Members would not need training as to how to conduct themselves in relation to each other and in relation to officials. It seems to me, in general, to be a matter of common sense and a matter of what is reasonable. But it may be that training of some kind would be useful. I certainly would not close my mind to it, if it were suggested.

1.2.2 Connétable K.C. Lewis of St. Saviour:

It is a question of clarity from the candidate. I believe the candidate said that he would reconstitute the panel without the former chair. Was that inference meaning without the former chair as chairman or that the former chair would not be welcome on the panel? We are a very diverse Assembly. It was just for clarity there.

Deputy G.P. Southern:

A vote of no confidence is a vote of no confidence.

Deputy P.M. Bailhache:

It is clear that the former chair would not be the chair of the panel because he has not put himself forward as a candidate. But I think that sometimes in life one has to acknowledge realities and the ideal is certainly to have a Scrutiny Panel, which can work together harmoniously, and I think that for the time being it would not be my intention to invite the former chair to be a member of the panel.

1.2.3 The Connétable of St. Saviour:

I thank the candidate for the answer, that is ultimately ...

The Bailiff:

No, that is a speech, sorry.

The Connétable of St. Saviour:

I was going to come on to something else.

The Bailiff:

Sorry, you were offered a supplementary question.

1.2.3 Deputy M. Tadier:

I asked a similar question to the other candidate. I noticed this candidate talked about obtaining evidence through informal conversations with Ministers. Does the candidate accept that the basis of Scrutiny when it was set up is that it should be, wherever possible, done publicly and transparently so that not just the Minister is held to account but the panel itself is accountable? Would he ask the question, whenever there is a suggestion to have private briefings, that he and panel members ask why, briefings are public and if they could be public?

Deputy P.M. Bailhache:

It is an interesting question. Certainly the code of practice records that in general the Scrutiny Panel should sit in public. But the code of practice also records that the panel can sit in private where it is necessary to ensure a free exchange of views. I think each case has to be considered on its merits. I agree that in principle the panel, when it is gathering evidence, should be sitting in public but that cannot always be the case.

1.2.4 Deputy G.P. Southern:

Could the candidate tell us of his experience in chairing a Scrutiny Panel?

Deputy P.M. Bailhache:

I do beg his pardon but I did not hear the question.

The Bailiff:

Could the candidate tell us of his experience in chairing a Scrutiny Panel?

Deputy P.M. Bailhache:

Have I got experience of chairing a Scrutiny Panel?

The Bailiff:

Deputy R.J. Ward of St. Helier Central	32	Deputy Sir P.M. Bailhache of St. Clement	14	Abstain: 0

Connétable of St. Helier		Connétable of St. Brelade
Connétable of St. Lawrence		Connétable of Trinity
Connétable of St. Peter		Connétable of St. Mary
Connétable of St. Martin		Connétable of St. Saviour
Connétable of St. John		Deputy C.F. Labey
Connétable of St. Clement		Deputy S.G. Luce
Connétable of Grouville		Deputy I.J. Gorst
Connétable of St. Ouen		Deputy Sir P.M. Bailhache
Deputy G.P. Southern		Deputy M.R. Scott
Deputy M. Tadier		Deputy R.E. Binet
Deputy L.M.C. Doublet		Deputy A. Howell
Deputy K.F. Morel		Deputy T.J.A. Binet
Deputy M.R. Le Hegarat		Deputy M.R. Ferey
Deputy S.M. Ahier		Deputy B. Ward
Deputy R.J. Ward
Deputy C.S. Alves
Deputy I. Gardiner
Deputy L.J. Farnham
Deputy K.L. Moore
Deputy S.Y. Mézec
Deputy T.A. Coles
Deputy B.B.de S.V.M. Porée
Deputy D.J. Warr
Deputy H.M. Miles
Deputy J. Renouf
Deputy C.D. Curtis
Deputy L.V. Feltham
Deputy H.L. Jeune
Deputy R.S. Kovacs
Deputy A.F. Curtis
Deputy L.K.F. Stephenson
Deputy M.B. Andrews

Deputy R.J. Ward:

Thank you, Sir. May I thank the Assembly and thank Deputy Bailhache as well. I think it is always important a contest, I am sure it was done extremely well. I would like to take a little bit of time regards the ... if I am honest, I was hoping there would be something to extend this out a little bit and we may come back tomorrow but we might make it to lunchtime. If so, I would like to make myself available for some conversation regards anyone interested in the panel. Perhaps it is time for me to ask Deputy Tadier to take up a bit of time. But perhaps I will not do that. [Laughter]

Deputy M. Tadier:

As it stands, I was going to ask for the vote both ways.

The Bailiff:

We can read out the vote both ways, if that is not a time delay exercise.

Deputy M. Tadier:

It might be an indirect consequence but I am genuinely interested.

The Greffier of the States:

Those voting pour: the Connétables of St. Helier, St. Lawrence, St. Peter, St. Martin, St. John, St. Clement, Grouville and St. Ouen, Deputies Southern, Tadier, Doublet, Morel, Le Hegarat, Ahier, Rob Ward, Alves, Gardiner, Farnham, Moore, Mézec, Coles, Porée, Warr, Miles, Renouf, Catherine Curtis, Feltham, Jeune, Kovacs, Alex Curtis, Stephenson and Andrews. Those voting for Deputy Bailhache: the Connétables of St. Brelade, Trinity, St. Mary and St. Saviour, and Deputies Labey, Luce, Gorst, Bailhache, Scott, Rose Binet, Howell, Tom Binet, Ferey and Barbara Ward.

The Bailiff:

You would wish to take a little time to consider whether you wish to bring forward nominations either at this meeting or at the next meeting?

Deputy R.J. Ward:

Yes, Sir. I think what may be likely is to bring forward at least a constitution of a panel but then there is also plenty of time to add members to that panel at any time. I would rather take time and get it right for the longevity, so I will come back as soon as I can. I think we do have quite a bit of business and we may well make it to lunchtime at least.

The Bailiff:

It will be a matter for the Assembly. If we finish Public Business then you will have to persuade the Assembly to come back after lunch. But if we do not then there will be a natural luncheon.

Deputy R.J. Ward:

I will make myself available in the tearoom as soon as I possibly can.

QUESTIONS

2. Written Questions

2.1 Deputy M.B Andrews of St. Helier North of the Minister for the Environment regarding regulation of Estate Agents (WQ.82/2023)

Question

Will the Minister advise whether he will seek to regulate Estate Agents, and if so, when such regulation would be implemented?

Answer

At present there are no plans to introduce new legislation regulating estate agents.

I would highlight the current regulations in place as described below.

The Consumer Protection (Unfair Practices) (Jersey) Law 2018 came into force in June 2018 which provides a comprehensive framework for the protection of consumers against unfair commercial practices. The Law extends to consumers who engage the services of estate agents, including to sell and to purchase property.

The Law enables Trading Standards to tackle unfair commercial practices, including:

• misleading advertisements and listings;

• misleading omissions where a business has failed to provide the consumer with important material information in good time;

• aggressive practices;

• banned practices; and

• failure to act in accordance with professional diligence.

The Law supports estate agents to adopt good practice in their business activities and enables Trading Standards to deal with estate agents which do not comply with the specified standards of practice.

The Minister is unconvinced that a strong need has been established for bespoke regulation of estate agents. Many estate agents in Jersey already adopt good practice. A number of estate agents are, for example, already members of representative trade bodies such as the National Association of Estate Agents and comply with industry-led standards. This includes requirements in relation to qualifications for staff members to make sure they are appropriately qualified to carry out estate agent activities. Consumers in Jersey can therefore choose estate agents that are part of the NAEA, which provides access to a client money protection scheme and an independent redress scheme.

2.2 The Connétable of St. Martin of the Chief Minister regarding food banks (WQ.83/2023)

Question

Following a report in the Jersey Evening Post on Tuesday 21st February regarding the increasing number of pensioners and children using food banks in Jersey, including a 41 percent increase between January 2022 to January 2023 in the number using the Salvation Army's Minden Street food bank, will the Chief Minister advise whether the Government intends to develop and deliver a strategy to ensure that Islanders do not face difficulty in purchasing enough food for themselves and their families; and, if not, why not?

Answer

The Government works in partnership through the Financial Impact Action Group to monitor and to support a number of organisations who operate food banks.

Work to collate food bank usage data is ongoing, which will help develop any future strategy and developments.

In addition, the Government committed to an extensive package of measures to address the cost-of-living crisis, which formed part of the Chief Minister’s 100 day plan.

This ongoing package will equate to almost £42 million of support in 2023 and includes.

An increase of 12% in Income Tax thresholds and allowances, including Child Allowances, Additional Allowance and Child Care Tax Relief, from 1 January 2023
Income tax threshold for a single person raised from £16,550 to £18,550
Increasing Income Support components in January 2023 to provide increases of at least 10.4% for the year with higher increases for carers and private sector tenants.
Increasing cold weather payments to £70 a month from October 2022 to March 2023 regardless of the temperature

In addition, short term measures implemented rapidly in 2022 included

Cost of Living Temporary Scheme (COLTS) payments to low-income households increased to £40 per person per month (£160 for a couple with 2 children)

Social Security contributions for individuals reduced by 2 percentage points (e.g. 6% to 4% for employees)
Doubling the 2022 Community Cost Bonus (CCB) to £516.50 and extending eligibility to include households who paid less than £2,735 tax in 2021.

The Government has also introduced the Parental Support Payment for parents or carers who are living, working and looking after their children in Jersey, but have been on the Island less than 5 years.

A range of benefits are provided to pensioners who do not pay income tax and/or have incomes below the income tax threshold. These include:

Community Cost Bonus – an annual fixed value payment
Pension Plus – support for dental, optical and chiropody costs
Health Access Scheme – support for GP and primary care costs
Cold Weather Bonus/Payment – support for heating costs
Christmas Bonus – annual payment before Christmas

The Jersey Old Age Pension is uprated every year in October. The uprate always at least matches the increase in pensioner RPI as measured in June. In years where wages are rising faster than prices, the pension increases above the RPI increase. In October 2022, the pension increased by 7.7% to give a full rate single pension entitlement of £253.40 a week.

In addition to the measures listed above, this Government is committed to working with key stakeholders to support all Islanders, and remains ready to take further action if it becomes necessary.

2.3 Deputy G.P Southern of St. Helier Central of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding regulation of Estate Agents (WQ.84/2023)

Question

Given that the key findings of the Jersey Care Model Review, as detailed within the Jersey Care Model, adopted under P.114/2020, state that "There is an urgent need to change primary care payment mechanisms in the short term with an opportunity to update them in the longer term", will the Minister advise –

(a) what progress has been made, if any, to change primary care mechanisms; and

(b) how she proposes to manage the transition of the funding for the preferred funding option, Option 2 –

(i) for vulnerable groups; or

(ii) universal coverage at a total cost of £14.5 million per year?

Answer

As set out in the response to WQ.174/2022 the Minister for Health and Social Services is, in accordance with the Government Plan 2022 and 2023, undertaking a wide review of the Island’s health and care costs. This work is underway. Specialist health economists are currently working to estimate total health care expenditure for Jersey (including government and non-government spend) and developing options for change. This review is focusing on funding for the whole health care system, rather than only the primary care payment mechanisms as per Option 2 as described in P114/2020.

The review is examining options for ensuring that any proposed new funding system builds in equity and fairness and works to protect the health of vulnerable groups. The potential implementation of Option 2, as described in P114/2020, and any associated transitional arrangements, will be considered after the review is complete and both the public and providers have been consulted on funding options.

2.4 Deputy M.R Scott of St. Brelade of the Chief Minister regarding the role of the Minister for External Relations (WQ.85/2023)

Question

Further to the response to Written Question 55/2023, will the Chief Minister –

(a) provide both a revised Ministerial Plan and Delivery Plan for External Relations highlighting any areas of anticipated involvement by the Minister for External Relations in promoting, protecting or otherwise representing the Island in finance industry matters;

(b) explain –

(i) the apparent inconsistency in the application of ministerial standards by allowing the Minister to retain the External Relations part of his portfolio while removing the Financial Services part; and

(ii) the term “proportionate” in respect of the response;

(c) expand upon the response given to part (c) by providing details of any risk assessments, consultations or accompanying procedures that were carried out prior to the decision to the portfolio changes; and, if no such were carried out, provide an explanation as to why it was not considered necessary; and

(d) expand upon the response given to part (d) in relation to the decision to allow the Minister to retain the External Relations portfolio by providing –

(i) the number of expressions of concern received from people involved or formerly involved in the finance industry; and

(ii) the total number of communications received in respect of this decision expressing concern?

Answer

(a) A revised Ministerial Delivery Plan will be produced to reflect the transfer of responsibility for Financial Services to the Chief Minister. The Minister for External Relations will continue to represent Jersey overseas on the full range of Jersey’s interests, in accordance with the Common Policy for External Relations. Where planned in relation to Financial Services, this is also included in their Ministerial Delivery Plan.

(b)

(i) There is no inconsistency. I have explained that the transfer of financial services was a proportionate response to personal administrative issues that were highlighted, notably, that this was an issue with personal finance that felt incompatible with holding responsibility for financial services, and that further action was not required.

(ii) Proportionate means an action or response equivalent or consistent to the matter in hand.

(c) The States of Jersey Law provides that the allocation of ministerial portfolios is a matter for the Chief Minister, and as previously explained, Ministers and Assistant Ministers accumulate knowledge and experience which helps inform decisions on an ongoing basis, including considering risk and reaction. In this case, that enabled me to take a rapid, and proportionate decision. I do not believe that the response to Deputy Ozouf’s personal administrative issues warranted, or would have benefited from, further consideration.

(d) On brief review, I only received less than a handful of emails relating to this matter. Decisions on this matter were not fundamentally driven by the volume of public correspondence, but my own decisions as to what was appropriate, and proportionate, in the circumstances.

2.5 Deputy R.J Ward of St. Helier Central of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding development of a cancer strategy (WQ.86/2023)

Question

Will the Minister advise the current progress in the development of a Cancer strategy for Jersey?

Answer

The development of a Cancer Strategy has been progressed during 2022. The following progress has been made:

A steering group was established to oversee the development of the strategy;
A working group was established to undertake the development of the strategy;
Data has been gathered and analysed to inform a needs analysis;
Engagement with stakeholders has been undertaken.

Final reviews are being undertaken and I anticipate the strategy to be presented to me by end of Q2 this year.

2.6 Deputy L.V. Feltham of St. Helier Central of the Minister for Social Security regarding the transform strategy (WQ.87/2023)

Question

Will the Minister provide the following information in relation to the Transform (Systems Renewal Strategy) GP21-013-CAPITA (the “Programme”), which is referenced in her Ministerial Delivery Plan –

(a) the purpose of the programme and its intended outputs;

(b) the total anticipated expenditure on the programme over all years (including past years and forward estimates), broken down by year and type of expenditure;

(d) the secured budget for the Programme in the current Government Plan;

(e) sources of funding for the Programme (including previous funding, secured funding and any additional anticipated funding requirements); and

(f) any other resource requirements for the Programme that have not been identified in the answer to (b), for example staff time not paid for by the Programme, input of other departments not paid for by the programme?

Answer

a) The purpose of the programme is to ‘transform our services and systems to make it easy for customers’. The programme has 3 primary objectives:

Deliver business change allowing the department to re-align its structure and processes to make it easy for customers and meet customer demand for the next 10-15 years;
Ensure the continuing reliability and availability of CLS’s primary business support system, to ensure it is able to discharge its statutory obligations;
Replace and modernise CLS’s benefit administration systems to develop, flex and enhance its services in a timely way, to allow the development of business support functionality in new technology to support future policy development and implementation.

The key expected outputs include a modern technology solution that allows customers to access all in-scope services online, receive pro-active notifications and improve access to their own data, as well as efficiencies and improved flexibility in the delivery of all services and associated business processes.

b) Actuals for 2021, 2022 and 2023 to date have been included in the response to question c).

At this stage it is too early to produce a detailed forecast for 2023 and 2024. A new forecast will be produced following a tender exercise, supplier selection and completion of the Full Business Case which is anticipated to be completed this year. Underspend from the original budget may be reprofiled if necessary past 2024.

Indicative ‘rough order of magnitude’ costs and timelines obtained during market engagement activities have varied significantly (i.e. from 11 months to 3 years) but suppliers are confident that a solution can be delivered within budget.

For additional context the programme has faced challenges post-covid recruiting to permanent, fixed-term and temporary posts for technical expertise to complete specialist analysis, design and commercial activities so has had to source some roles through the professional services framework. It is expected that there will be a need for additional specialist support required for database design, data migration planning and assurance activities during 2023.

c) Actuals to date.

	2021	2022	2023	2024	Totals
Staff costs	184	571	142	0	897
Consultant costs	48	247	130	0	425
M&D recharges	0	0	0	0	0
Implementation costs	0	0	0	0	0
Computer software	0	0	0	0	0
Training	0	0	0	0	0
Marketing	0	0	0	0	0
Other expenses	0	0	0	0	0
Contingency	0	0	0	0	0
Total spend (£,000)	232	818	272	0	1,322
GP Budget (£,000)	250	2,000	12,500	8,250	23,000

d) The secured budget for the programme is £23 million. It is expected to be reforecast following the tender exercise as per b).

	2021	2022	2023	2024	Totals
GP Budget (£,000)	250	2,000	12,500	8,250	23,000

e) The programme is funded by the Social Security Fund. Should the Transform solution deliver capabilities that can be re-used by other departments then alternative funding will be considered.

f) The programme will require resources from the following departments:

Modernisation & Digital
Strategic Policy, Planning and Performance

The definitive costs of which are too early to provide at this stage, some of which will be shared with the Services Digitisation programme and will be dependent on supplier responses to the Transform tender.

It is expected that some minor input will be required from other departments to support governance activities such as amendments to data processing agreements (e.g. Revenue Jersey).

2.7 Deputy T.A. Coles of St. Helier South of the Minister for Housing and Communities regarding Andium homes’ numbers of properties (WQ.88/2023)

Question

Will the Minister advise the number of homes that Andium provide, the amount that they are in the process of building and the quantity that they have planning approval to build, breaking each category down by site into number of bedrooms and maximum occupancy per unit?

Answer

Andium Homes rental portfolio* is broken down as follows:

Property Type	Studio	1	2	3	4	5	6	Totals
BUNGALOW		39	6	3				48
FLAT	251	1,830	1,232	169				3,482
HOUSE		27	189	622	111	6	1	956
MAISONETTE		3	130	41	2			176
Grand Total	251	1,899	1,557	835	113	6	1	4,662

*Does not include charity hostels and properties managed on behalf of POSS

The following homes are under construction:

Project	Total units	1Bed 1Person Flat	1Bed 2Person Flat	2Bed 3Person Flat	2Bed 4Person Flat	3Bed 4Person Flat	3Bed 5Person Flat	3Bed 6Person Flat	2Bed 4Person House	3Bed 5Person House
Edinburgh House	117		58		53			6
Cyril Le Marquand Court	85		79	6
The Limes	130		42	73	9		6
The Mayfair	201		147	53		1
Northern Quarter	169	12	110	34	4	2			1	6
Total	702	12	436	166	66	3	6	6	1	6

The following homes have planning approval:

Project	Total units	1Bed 1Person Flat	1Bed 2Person Flat	2Bed 3Person Flat	2Bed 4Person Flat	3Bed 4Person Flat
Ann Street Brewery	249	0	162	82	0	5

2.8 Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier Central of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding a response to recommendations from the Deployment of Staff Resources in Health and Community Services report (WQ.89/2023)

Question

Further to her answer to Oral Question 11/2023, will the Minister advise whether she is in a position to inform the Assembly of her officers’ response to the recommendations contained in the Comptroller and Auditor General’ Report dated 24 January 2023 entitled “Deployment of Staff Resources in Health and Community Services” (with particular reference to such issues as the harmonisation of 24/7 working practices across all of the workforce) given that a presentation was to be forthcoming no later than 7 March 2023?

Answer

The original deadline to respond to the report was 8 March 2023. An extension to the response deadline was requested and agreed by the Public Accounts Committee (PAC). The Executive response to the Report recommendations was submitted on Thursday 9 March. PAC will consider the response and publish it in due course in the usual way.

If the Deputy would like a meeting with either myself or the relevant officers to discuss the responses when they are published, this can be arranged.

2.9 Deputy M.B. Andrews of St. Helier Central of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding headcount of companies in the Island (WQ.90/2023)

Question

Will the Minister advise the number of companies on the island broken down by headcount for each year since 2018?

Answer

Year [1]

Number of businesses with 1 staff

Number of businesses with 2-5 staff

Number of businesses with 6-9 staff

Number of businesses with 10-19 staff

Number of businesses with 20-49 staff

Number of businesses with 50+ staff

Total number of businesses

2018

4,180

1,980

540

410

290

190

7,590

2019

4,380

1,890

540

430

290

190

7,720

2020

4,430

1,940

530

410

260

170

7,740

2021

4,780

2,040

590

410

290

170

8,280

2022

4,610

2,100

580

430

290

180

8,190

2.10 Deputy M.B. Andrews of St. Helier North of the Chair of the States Employment Board regarding appointments with salaries exceeding £100,000 (WQ.91/2023)

Question

Will the Chair advise how many appointments have been made in each of the last five years where the employee’s salary exceeded £100,000?

Answer

APPOINTMENT YEAR	NUMBER OF APPOINTMENTS WITH A STARTING BASIC SALARY EXCEEDING £100K
2018	41
2019	33
2020	121*
2021	32
2022	29
2023	1
TOTAL	257

*95 Primary Care Physicians were employed by Government due to Covid-19 in 2020.

2.11 Deputy M.B. Andrews of St. Helier North of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding complaints in the department (WQ.92/2023)

Question

Will the Minister advise how many complaints have been filed against her department each year since 2018?

Answer

The table below outlines the total complaints received per year since 2018. Please note that 2023 covers the period from 1st January 2023 – 28th February 2023.

Year	Complaints received
2018	232
2019	271
2020	311
2021	375
2022	372
2023	100

2.12 Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier Central of the Minister for Social Security regarding the regulation of zero-hours contracts (WQ.93/2023)

Question

Given the approval by the previous Assembly of P.32/2021, regarding the need for regulation of zero-hour contracts, will the Minister advise –

a) whether the estimated £50,000 funding allocated in the 2022-2025 Government Plan to undertake a review of workers’ rights has been utilised, and if so, will she provide a breakdown of the spend;

b) whether any further funding for this review has been allocated or utilised; and

c) whether she will publish the report of the Jersey Employment Forum in relation to zero-hours contracts, and if not, why not; and if she does intend to publish the report, by what date?

Answer

a) Although funding was made available for this project, it was not necessary to buy in external support and the work is being undertaken using the resources already available to the Employment Forum.

b) No further funding for the review has been sought or allocated;

c) The Minister’s Delivery Plan for 2023 includes the following action:

MSS P1.4 100 Day Plan Action 5

Supporting workers through increases in the minimum wage and taking actions to improve their rights in 2023.

Complete the Zero Hour Contract review in Q1 and take actions as required from Q2 onwards.

The report of the Forum will be presented to the Minister by the end of Q1 and will be published by the Forum in the normal way. Actions following on from the review will then be scheduled from Q2 onwards.

2.13 Deputy R.J. Ward of St. Helier Central of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding a cancer strategy (WQ.94/2023)

Question

Will the Minister advise the current position regarding development of a cancer strategy for Jersey, and will she further state what resources are committed to the development of the strategy and the estimated timescale for implementation?

Answer

In addition to my answer to WQ.086/2023, the following progress has been made in the development of the Cancer Strategy throughout 2022:

a working group was established to commence development of a draft strategy, with a steering group overseeing their work. These groups included:
- service users
- GP’s
- public health officials
- medical consultants and lead nurses (including medical oncology, radiography, palliative care and histopathology)
- service managers
- representatives of MacMillian Cancer Support
relevant data was gathered to help understand prevalence and inform a need analysis
current services have been mapped, including acceptance criteria and access arrangements to help identification of gaps in provision and activity, and
a series of 11 stakeholders engagement sessions have been undertaken to support identification of key issues and inform future activity.

That work is now subject to review, and I anticipate a strategy being presented to me by end of Q2 2023.

The Government of Jersey resources committed to develop this strategy have been time and commitment from

public health officials
medical consultants and lead nurses (including medical oncology, radiography, palliative care and histopathology)
service managers

2.14 Deputy R.J. Ward of St. Helier Central of the Minister for Infrastructure regarding income received from the rental of sports facilities (WQ.95/2023)

Question

Will the Minister advise the annual income received from the rental of sports facilities owned by the States of Jersey to sports groups across the island?

Answer

The Sport Division collect rents of £342,566 per annum for property privately let under licence or lease agreements with Jersey Property Holdings, on or within property managed by Sport. These agreements are not all for Sports related activity and include other activity, including, but not limited to, Child Care, Catering and Administration.

2.15 Deputy R.J. Ward of St. Helier Central of the Minister for Children and Education regarding a new education campus at Highlands College (WQ.96/2023)

Question

Will the Minister advise the current position regarding a new Education campus at Highlands College?

Answer

Feasibility funding of £330,000 is available in the Government Plan 2023. This funding has been secured to further develop plans for the creation of a new Further Education Campus.

Previous feasibility work has included a strategic review of the college estate and facilities, both of which supported the development of business cases for submission to earlier Government Plans. Ongoing work was delayed due to the Pandemic, and it was agreed that a Further Education and Skills Actionable Agenda would be commissioned to identify the need and benefits of redesigning the delivery of services for Further, Higher and Adult Skills and Lifelong Education.

In addition, given the continued need to invest in the maintenance of the existing estate, together with the increased importance of the Actionable Agenda; Highlands College in conjunction with Infrastructure, Housing and Environment commissioned a condition survey in November 2022. This has highlighted the fundamental needs to develop a fit for purpose learning environment which would be central to the development of skills for Jersey.

The next phase of work is to review the recommendations from the Further Education and Skills Actionable agenda alongside a report due on Higher Education. The outputs from these reports will assist in developing a specification for the feasibility study in consultation with the Population and Skills Ministerial Group and other stakeholders.

I anticipate that the feasibility project will commence in the second quarter of 2023.

2.16 Deputy C.D. Curtis of St. Helier Central of the Minister for Housing and Communities regarding young couples upsizing their properties (WQ.97/2023)

Question

Will the Minister advise whether he has considered the position of young couples who have managed to purchase a one-bedroom flat, but cannot afford to move to a larger property due to high prices, and wish to start a family; and will he provide details on any planned work aimed at empowering young people in this situation to upsize their property?

Answer

As Minister for Housing and Communities, I am acutely aware of the housing challenges faced by young people. Unfortunately, this issue is not a problem isolated to Jersey. Economic changes have impacted on the lending environment, creating a wider affordability gap. Nevertheless, I want to give hope to Islanders, particularly young people who want to remain in Jersey. I have, therefore, tasked officers to think creatively in proposing assisted purchase schemes. I am in discussions with our Chief Economist about such schemes; I want to ensure the policy I publish is workable within the current economic climate.

We also have housing supply identified in Bridging Island Plan of 4,000 homes, around 1,500 of which will be affordable homes on rezoned sites. These sites will provide larger, affordable family homes.

Supporting more housing options for young people is important to me. That’s why I am also committed to reducing the entry age for the Gateway down to 25.

2.17 Deputy M.R. Scott of St. Brelade of the Minister for Children and Education regarding non-fee paying secondary school places (WQ.98/2023)

Question

For each of the non-fee paying secondary schools would the Minister advise –

a) how many places are available for year 7 intake;

b) how many applications have been made for year 7 for September 2023;

c) how many appeals have been received in relation to allocation of places, and of these, how many have been successful and how many are outstanding;

d) whether there is any ability to increase capacity in cases where there is over-subscription, and if so, by how much;

and will the Minister further advise whether driving distance from principal residence to school is factored into appeals for secondary school places and, if not, why not?

Answer

For the September 2023 year 7 intake:

This year’s intake is significantly larger than average years, primarily due to a high birth rate in Jersey 11 years ago. Additional forms of entry have been opened at Haute Valleé, where there is spare capacity to accommodate this.

In round one of the allocations process places are offered based on the catchment address held by the students’ primary school. In round two, requests made for schools different to the catchment school are considered and where possible allocated. 692 places at catchment school or a different school of choice have now been allocated, this equates to 95% of allocations to catchment schools or a different school of choice.

	a) how many places are available for year 7 intake;	b) how many applications have been made for year 7 for September 2023;	c) how many appeals have been received in relation to allocation of places
Grainville	182	195	10
Haute Valleé	182	156	0
Le Rocquier	182	176	0
Les Quennevais	182	197	13

c) how many appeals have been successful and how many are outstanding

Year 7 appeals take place week commencing 23rd March, none have been decided and all remain outstanding at this time.

d) whether there is any ability to increase capacity in cases where there is over-subscription, and if so, by how much;

Grainville, Haute Valleé and Les Quennevais are designed to provide excellent education facilities supporting a broad and balanced curriculum, for 7 forms of entry, each with 25 students, total 175 per school. It is possible to stretch this capacity by one student per form giving a total capacity of 182 students.

As part of the planning for the year 7 intake this year I received advice from officers and met with head teachers. Capacity is limited to ensure that all students receive a high-quality education with the wide curriculum offer they deserve. Stretching capacity beyond the design limits of a school results in larger classes, reduced quality of education, reduced ability to target extra support where needed and reduced access to specialist teaching spaces and associated curriculum.

Driving distance from principal residence to school is a factor of appeals for secondary school places.

2.18 Deputy R.S. Kovacs of St. Saviour of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding the Finance Law Delegation Report (WQ.99/2023)

Question

Will the Minister provide further explanation in relation to the following funding highlighted in the report R.30/2023 “Finance Law Delegation Report for the six-month period July-December 2022” –

a) £500,000 has been transferred from Infrastructure, Housing, and Environment to Strategic Policy, Planning, and Performance (page 3, table 2.1) with the intention that:

“The funding will be used to create a dedicated function within SPPP to lead on the development and implementation of policy options for Housing, and co-ordinate the activities of delivery agencies. The recurring transfer is included in the Government Plan 2023-2026. (MD-TR-2022-720)”,

will the Minister provide additional detail on what this function is, who will undertake it and provide a breakdown of how this funding will be used; and

b) £245,000 has been allocated to the “Legal Advisors Reward Scheme” (page 8), will the Minister explain what this scheme intends to achieve, and how many individuals have received a reward from this scheme, with detail on how much each individual received?

Answer

The Finance Law Delegation Report is published twice yearly by the Minister for Treasury and Resources, as is required under the Public Finances (Jersey) Law 2019. The report lists decisions taken by the Minister under certain Articles of that Law. The vast majority of those decisions have previously been published in full at:

https://www.gov.je/government/planningperformance/pages/ministerialdecisions.aspx.

(a) As part of the previous Government’s Common Strategic Policy (CSP) priority to ‘Reduce Inequality’, £500,000 was allocated within IHE (Infrastructure, Housing, and Environment) to fund the strategic co-ordination of the Housing Policy Development Board and longer-term planning. This work was subsequently taken forward by SPPP (Strategic Policy, Planning, and Performance – now part of the Cabinet Office).

The funding provides resources to support the work of the dedicated Housing & Regeneration Unit within the Cabinet Office, leading on the development and implementation of policy options and co-ordinating the activities of other departments and delivery agencies, to support the relentless focus on housing. The resources are being used for 3 full time posts (one already in post, one under recruitment and 1 under review) and £250,000 is earmarked to help address the issue of vacant homes. Further recruitment is underway to strengthen the core team with an additional 2 full time equivalents. Key activities include the implementation of policy development and interventions as outlined in the Minister for Housing’s Delivery Plan, for example, updating the Dwelling-houses (Rent Control) Law 1946 and developing the Island’s first long-term, sustainable strategy for the future of Jersey’s housing market.

The relevant Heads of Finance Business Partnering, Group Directors, Accountable Officers, and affected Ministers agreed that the budget be transferred.

(b) The allocation of up to £245,000 from the General Reserve in MD-TR-2022-814 was to cover a forecast potential overspend in the Law Officers’ Department. The Department’s final outturn for 2022 was an underspend of £93,000, so this allocation from the General Reserve was not needed and was not drawn down.

The Government Plan 2023-206 includes a Growth allocation in each of the years of the plan to fund the Legal Adviser Reward Scheme. The approved allocation for 2023 is £469,000.

The 2023 funding covers up to 72 staff members in the Legal Adviser pay group. The business case from the Law Officers’ Department includes the following:

“At the time that a Legal Adviser pay group was established in 2013 it was agreed by SEB that the new pay scale would be realigned to the market every ‘3-5 years’, however it was not until 2021 when a market review was carried out and an updated scheme was proposed. The updated scheme was implemented in 2022, having received SEB and Treasury Minister approval and following a consultation process with staff and trade union representatives in line with the Organisational Change Policy.

The updated Legal Adviser Reward Scheme realigns the pay group to the market and includes Assistant Legal Advisers and the new role of Paralegal in order to encompass the full legal job family in one pay group.

The objective of tracking the market rate is to be able to retain and recruit legal job family staff in order to achieve an ROI (Return on Investment) in staff costs by maintaining the level of expertise and experience within the Department, ensuring effectiveness against the private practice sector and achieving Value for Money. If the resources are not available in-house, it is less efficient and far more costly to outsource the work to external counsel.”

2.19 Deputy M.R. Scott of St. Brelade of the Chief Minister regarding improving transparency and accountability across Government (WQ.100/2023)

Question

Will the Chief Minister advise what specific laws, policy changes, and public employee contract changes, if any, she will be seeking to implement during her term of office to improve transparency and accountability across Government in furtherance of the priority identified within her 2023-26 Ministerial Plan?

Answer

My 2023-26 Ministerial Plan contains several measures that will, when implemented, improve transparency and accountability across Government. These include the introduction of the Jersey Public Services Ombudsperson (JPSO) which will increase transparency in the Government and across public authorities by investigating and resolving complaints made by Islanders, including whistle-blowers. The JPSO would have wide-ranging powers to enable it to carry out investigations effectively, including powers to commence investigations on its own initiative. All investigation reports will be published.

Proposed amendments to the Statistics and Census (Jersey) Law 2018 would strengthen the accountability and independence of Statistics Jersey. These amendments will enhance the protection available to key Government statistics, improving transparency surrounding their prioritisation and production.

Following a public consultation, which concluded in February, the Government will soon be publishing a new Policy Engagement Framework. As set out in my initial proposals in a report to the Assembly (r.145-2022.pdf (gov.je)), the implementation of the Framework will ensure that the views of Islanders, particularly those from parts of the community that are harder to reach, will be included in key Government decision making processes. This represents just part of an overall package of actions that the Government is taking to increase the availability of information to Islanders, which was set out in the Engagement and Information Improvement Report (r.163-2022.pdf (gov.je).

Regarding employment contracts, the States Employment Board has introduced a new Code of Practice on Standards in Public Service. All public service employees are required to comply with the Code which states, amongst other requirements, that States employees must take accountability for their own conduct, behaviours, and work.

2.20 Deputy M.R. Scott of St. Brelade of the Minister for Treasury and Resources regarding the Government’s new invoice payment system (WQ.101/2023)

Question

With respect to Government's new invoice payment system (the “System”), will the Minister advise –

a) how many complaints have been received regarding either –

the manner in which the change to the System was notified to suppliers of goods and services, and the manner of its implementation; or
the System providing excessive information to suppliers of goods and services creating unnecessary administration for them;

b) whether there was a plan in place for implementation of the System; and

c) whether the System will be reviewed to assess its impact on suppliers of goods and services and, if so, when?

Answer

a) Connect Suppliers Ariba/Finance is a global SAP ERP system which provides integrated functionality from procurement though to accounts payable and has been implemented to replace increasingly unsupported Supply Jersey and JD Edwards technology. The implementation of Release 1 took place in January 2023 and during the past couple of months GoJ has actively listened and responded to our suppliers during a significant transitional period. It is inevitable that a number of issues will arise from any such major transition to a new system, but we are confident that the issues raised are being addressed.

i) Some suppliers have highlighted they would have preferred earlier communications. The ITS Programme determined that there was an optimum time for notifying suppliers of the change in system. To notify suppliers too soon could have meant the Connect Suppliers Ariba message was not acted upon. Suppliers were notified at what was thought the optimum time.

ii) At implementation there were instances of suppliers receiving multiple notification emails. A small number of suppliers complained, and as a result this issue was addressed as part of Hypercare support and quickly resolved.

GoJ have actively responded to queries from Suppliers. Queries have been received by both to Commercial Services and Accounts Payable departments. As expected, there has been a peak in demand on our services and query management, however this has provided departments with key themes on areas we need to target and provide support to our Suppliers. We have published links to all of the communications and considerable training material issued to our Suppliers on Gov.Je alongside a useful list of FAQ’s for additional support.

iii) GoJ has received only 1 formal complaint through the customer feedback management system (CFMS). There have been approximately 12 informal complaints received. These have been due to a lack of supplier understanding of the new process and these have been resolved through targeted support.

b) The implementation of Connect Suppliers Ariba/Finance was fully planned by the ITS Programme. This implementation plan has been managed digitally and encompasses the key components of the transition from Supply Jersey and JD Edwards to Connect Suppliers Ariba/Finance. These elements included all planning aspects to allow for a programme Go-Live of Release 1 during January 2023 and to provide structured support during the post Go-Live hyper care period. The implementation plan was developed during 2022 and is overseen by the Programme Partner alongside the ITS Project Management Office (PMO) in addition to the Intelligent Client Function (ICF) supporting with project management. There was comprehensive programme governance around the design, development and implementation of Connect. The period of Hypercare support post Go-Live of the new system is being used to resolve issues quickly as they occur.

c) The transfer to a new procurement and payments system will be under regular review moving forward. Following the initial transition period, there will be a period of embedment and further communications to all users will follow.

2.21 Deputy L.V. Feltham of St. Helier Central of the Minister for Children and Education regarding the operational policies and guidance used in her Department (WQ.102/2023)

Question

Will the Minister provide a list of the operational policies and guidance documents used by her department, including the following details for each –

a) what date the document was approved for use;

b) who approved it;

c) the date of implementation;

d) where the document can be accessed;

e) what areas of the department use the policy/guidance;

f) how staff are informed about, and provided training on, the policy/guidance; and

g) how compliance/non-compliance with the policy/guidance is tracked and monitored?

Answer

Following discussion between Deputy Feltham and the Minister it was agreed to limit the scope and focus of the response to this question, to policies and guidance documents that relate to child protection and children in need.

There are core documents available to staff working with children and families within the early help and statutory social work services that guide the activities of triage, assessment and decision making in relation to considering the risk of significant harm to all children and to help understand their particular needs.

Documents are located in 3 main areas:

Publicly available documents on the Government of Jersey web pages.
Internal operational policies available to officers who work within the Children’s Social Care Services Department only.
Publicly available documents on the safeguarding partnership board website:

Jersey Safeguarding Partnership Board

Full Contents (proceduresonline.com)

Jersey Children’s Social Care Services operate according to the practice model entitled ‘Jersey’s Children First’. There are multiple documents available publicly that guide and support practitioners to understand the practice model and how to apply the model in direct work with families. These can be found here: Guidance for practitioners (gov.je)

More specific details relating to points a-g above are summarised in a table list accompanying this answer. The table sets out all of the separate documents that are used by the department relating to child protection and children in need.

The responsibility to provide services to Children in Need is not yet set out in statute, however Children in Need will be recognised as such in the new Children and Young People’s Law in 2023.

The table below list the documents and details as requested by the questioner:

Document Title	a) date the document was approved for use;	b) who approved it;	c) date of implementation;	d) where the document can be accessed;	e) what areas of the department use the policy/guidance;	f) how staff are informed about, and provided training on, the policy/guidance; and	g) how compliance/non-compliance with the policy/guidance is tracked and monitored?
Using the Jersey's Children First Guidance	Sept-18	Group Director for Children's Social Care and the States Ministerial Group for Community	Nov-18	Guidance for practitioners (gov.je)	Island wide services involved in working with children	During induction, GOJ staff obtain access to the Virtual College and complete the JCF Essentials modules.	Quarterly data is obtained to look at completion rates of the training for all staff.
Understanding the Continuum of Children's Needs	Oct-22	Safeguarding Partnership Board	Oct-22	Continuum-of-Need-2022-without-pre-birth-indicators-Final-Operational-updated.pdf (safeguarding.je)	Island wide services involved in working with children	During induction, GOJ staff are asked to read and understand the continuum of need.	Line managers will check during induction that the CON has been accessed and read by staff. The CON document is regularly revisited in Service Meetings and with HOS to be refreshed and updated as new needs emerge in the population.
Article 42 Child Protection Enquiries Under the Minister's Duty to Investigate	Mar-17	Safeguarding Partnership Board	Mar-17	Child Protection Enquiries (proceduresonline.com)	Children's Social Care Social Work Teams	During induction, GOJ staff are asked to read and understand the child protection enquiries Article 42 procedures.	Line Managers will check during induction that the procedures have been accessed and read by staff. Training on the procedures can be requested from the SPB free of charge.
Children and Young Person Safeguarding Referrals	Oct-22	Safeguarding Partnership Board	Oct-22	Children and Young Person Safeguarding Referrals (proceduresonline.com)	Island wide services involved in working with children	Members of the Safeguarding Partnership Board Sub Groups ensure their respective service areas read and understand the procedures.	Line Managers will check during induction that the procedures have been accessed and read by staff. Training on the procedures can be requested from the SPB free of charge.
Responding to Abuse and Neglect	Jun-19	Safeguarding Partnership Board	Jun-19	Responding to Abuse and Neglect (proceduresonline.com)	Staff located in all Children's Social Care Teams responsible for safeguarding and promoting the welfare of children.	Members of the Safeguarding Partnership Board Sub Groups ensure their respective service areas read and understand the procedures.	Line Managers will check during induction that the procedures have been accessed and read by staff. Training on the procedures can be requested from the SPB free of charge. Each time workers identify suspected abuse and neglect; they are required to use the procedures with guidance from line managers.
Assessment	Jun-19	Safeguarding Partnership Board	Jun-19	Assessment (proceduresonline.com)	Social Workers undertaking child and family assessments following Children's Hub triage and progression for statutory social work involvement.	During induction, GOJ staff are asked to read and understand the Assessment procedures along with the Social Work Practice Standards.	Line Managers Quality Assure and sign off all Child and Family Assessments and must ensure the Assessment procedures are followed in supervision of social work staff.
Child Protection Plans	Oct-19	Safeguarding Partnership Board	Oct-19	Child Protection Plans (proceduresonline.com)	Social workers, Managers and Independent Reviewing Officers responsible for chairing Child Protection Conferences.	Members of the Safeguarding Partnership Board Sub Groups ensure their respective service areas read and understand the procedures.	Line Managers Quality Assure and sign off all reports for Child Protection Conferences and must ensure the Child Protection Plans procedures are followed in supervision of social work staff.
Child Protection Conferences	Oct-19	Safeguarding Partnership Board	Oct-19	Child Protection Conferences (proceduresonline.com)	Social workers, Managers and Independent Reviewing Officers responsible for chairing Child Protection Conferences use the procedures. Partner agencies can also use the procedures to ask for a child protection conference.	Members of the Safeguarding Partnership Board Sub Groups ensure their respective service areas read and understand the procedures.	The Manager of the Independent Reviewing Officer Service will check that the Child Protection Conferences adhere to the procedures.
Children's Social Care Service Practice Standards	Aug-21	Group Director for Children's Social Care	Aug-21	ID CSCS Practice Standards 20210920MO.pdf (gov.je)	All Social Workers and qualified social work managers working in Children's Social Care Services.	All Social Care staff are trained internally on use of the standards and all staff have a copy of / link to the standards.	Manager's sign off on pieces of work to ensure compliance with the standards. Routine Internal Audit work looks at compliance with practice standards as the measure of their use.

2.22 Deputy L.J. Farnham of St. Mary, St. Ouen and St. Peter of the Minister for Infrastructure regarding inter-site transfers of a deteriorating patient in a multi-site hospital (WQ.103/2023)

Question

Further to the report (R.32/2023) entitled “Approach to delivering new Health Care Facilities” setting out proposals for a multi-site hospital programme to coordinate subordinate projects over a number of sites including, but not limited to; St Saviour, Overdale, Kensington Place/Gloucester Street and the former Les Quennevais School, will the Minister outline how inter-site transfers of a deteriorating patient would be managed?

Answer

Deteriorating patients will be managed in the same way that they are today.

The health department currently delivers services at St Saviours, Overdale and Gloucester Street in addition to a number of community outpatient centres, for example, La Chasse and Le Bas.

Currently, if transfer to another site is required for a patient being cared for in an inpatient facility, for example from Orchard House, Clinique Pinel, Rosewood House or Samares Ward, they are transferred by ambulance to the required site. This transfer is arranged directly with the ambulance service.

For patients who become unwell when attending an outpatient department, they are managed via a 999 call to the ambulance service and transferred to the Emergency Department if required following assessment by the Paramedic.

The Enid Quenault Health & Wellbeing Centre will provide outpatient services only.

In developing the new facilities, the clinical service clusters will focus on caring for our sickest patients in a single location. This will reduce the need for inter site transfers, but it is acknowledged that providing care across multiple sites may increase the number of these transfers.

2.23 Deputy L.J. Farnham of St. Mary, St. Ouen and St. Peter of the Minister for Infrastructure regarding patient safety assumptions on a multi-site hospital (WQ.104/2023)

Question

Will the Minister provide details of the patient safety assumptions and the quality indicators that underpin the current project to move to a multi-site healthcare provision?

Answer

Objectives for the new healthcare facilities are currently being prepared. Improving patient outcomes and minimising clinical and operational risk are fundamental to any proposal for healthcare facilities. No proposal would be taken forward that was unsafe for patient care.

Quality Indicators for this programme will be developed in conjunction with HCS colleagues as part of the business case process.

2.24 Deputy L.J. Farnham of St. Mary, St. Ouen and St. Peter of the Minister for Infrastructure regarding efficiencies in a multi-site hospital environment (WQ.105/2023)

Question

Will the Minister advise what assumptions, if any, have been made in relation to reduced length of patient stays, changes in outpatient attendances and changes in day case procedures in order to maximise patient outcomes and efficiencies in a multi-site environment?

Answer

Reducing length of stay, changes in outpatient attendances and changes in day case procedures are all workstreams that are continually reviewed by Health and Community service colleagues.

Work is currently underway, as part of the feasibility studies, to identify those measures that can be realistically achieved to inform the revised Functional Brief. However, as with all previous programmes and projects, it is recognised that there will be several approaches to maximise patient outcomes and efficiencies over the life of the built asset; consequently, the design will always need to be flexible enough to respond.

2.25 Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier Central of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding the dental fitness scheme (WQ.106/2023)

Question

Will the Minister provide confirmation that the Dental Fitness Scheme still exists, and if it does, will she advise –

(a) the take-up of the scheme by children or young people for the period January 2021 to December 2022;

(b) what the total benefit spend by Health and Community Services was to bring children to dental fitness and then maintaining fitness;

(c) what the fee paid to dentists under the scheme stands at and whether the monthly amount has been uprated since the creation of the scheme;

(d) how many of the Island’s dentists provided services under the scheme in the period January 2021 to December 2022;

(e) what progress, if any, has been made in creating the new dental strategy promised by the previous Health Minister in 2020/21, in particular the implementation of a preventative model of dental care;

(f) how many full-time equivalent posts are filled within the department of community dentistry and how many vacancies are currently carried; and

(g) the number of full-time equivalent posts and number of vacancies within that same department for each of the last two years?

Answer

Please note that questions a), c) and d) fall under the remit of the Minister for Social Security. I have liaised with the Minister to source a response to these questions, however if further information or clarity is required, these should be directed to the Minister for Social Security in the first instance.

a) The number of children or young people taking up this scheme was:

Jan-Dec 2021	594
Jan-Dec 2022	548
Total Jan 2021 – Dec 2022	1142

b) In 2022, the total spend by Health and Community Services was £2677.65.

c) The amount payable is £6 a month per member. This has not been changed recently but it is under review.

d) The number of dentists who provided services between Jan-Dec 2021 was 54. This decreased to 51 in 2022.

e) An interim Oral Health Strategy has been produced in conjunction with Public Health, which is called ‘Let’s Smile, An Oral Health Strategy for Jersey 2022-2025'. It has incorporated a broad range of stakeholder insights gained through engagement sessions, and a questionnaire that was undertaken as part of the development process. The interim strategy was completed in summer 2023 and approved by the Clinical and Professional and Advisory Forum on 10 August 2022.

f) Currently there are 3.8 full time equivalent posts within community dental (all for dental officers), and no vacancies.

g) Over 2021 and 2022 there were 2.8 full time equivalent posts for dental officers, and no vacancies. There was also 1 full-time equivalent post for a consultant in restorative dentistry, which was vacant at the end of 2022, and has since been repurposed into a senior dental officer role.

2.26 Deputy R.J. Ward of St. Helier Central of the Minister for Housing and Communities regarding recent rental increases for JHT tenants (WQ.107/2023)

Question

In relation to the recent rent increases for Jersey Homes Trust tenants of up to 9%, will the Minister advise –

(a) what method of comparison, if any, to market rent was used; and

(b) what action, if any, he is taking to support tenants facing significant increases in their rents?

Answer

(a) Jersey’s officially recognised social housing suppliers, of which JHT is one, are subject to the Social Rents Housing Policy, which caps social rents at up to 80% of the market rate. It is important to note that the 80% represents a ceiling not a target. Social housing suppliers are responsible for ensuring the rents they charge comply with the social rents cap. This typically involves sourcing data from the private rentals in Jersey for a given type/size of property and then reducing rents accordingly to comply with the social rents policy.

JHT has advised that its managing agent, Brunel Management, also manages a large number of private rentals, which provides a significant amount of real time data on rents being paid in Jersey’s private rental sector.

(b) Jersey Homes Trust (JHT) agreed to my request to delay its rent increases until 1 May. The request for a delay is intended to offer JHT tenants more time to get financial arrangements put in place, either by discussing options with the Housing Advice Service or Income Support. It will also offer more time for tenants to discuss their individual circumstances with JHT so that appropriate payment plans can be established.

The team responsible for benefit administration at Customer and Local Services have liaised with JHT to ensure support is available for tenants who are in receipt of Income Support. The Income Support team have already had tenants who are directly affected by the rent increase visiting the department. Officers have provided support as needed for people who are unclear about the situation.

Members of staff from Income Support and the Housing Advice Service will attend a JHT tenants forum meeting at the Town Hall, scheduled for 20 March 2023. They will be on hand to offer advice and support to tenants who have been affected, including on applying for additional financial support.

2.27 Deputy R.J. Ward of St. Helier Central of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding PFAS exposure (WQ.108/2023)

Question

Will the Minister advise what actions, if any, are being taken following the return of blood test results from Islanders who have had PFAS exposure; and further will the Minister provide details on what plans, if any, are in place to address the PFAS levels in people's systems and the time scale for any such actions?

Answer

Islanders were provided with access to the Listening Lounge to access psychological support at the time of receiving their original results letter, if they felt that they were experiencing stress or anxiety as a result of PFAS exposure. Additionally, Islanders were advised that if they were using a private water supply that they should contact Environmental Health, should they want it tested for PFAS. Further, they were advised not to drink water that they believed had been contaminated with PFAS.

There is no international agreement about the health impacts of PFAS and research is difficult to interpret without specialist knowledge. Consequently, it was agreed to establish a PFAS Scientific Advisory Panel, which the Public Health team are presently establishing. This is an independent group who will assess the scientific evidence and make recommendations to Government about what actions are needed.

The first matter that this Panel will be addressing is clinical interventions – providing evidence-based recommendations about treatments or interventions for people with high levels of PFAS in their blood to reduce it. The first meeting of the panel is intended to be held in April, and recruitment is on track. It is intended that a first report will be available in Q3 of 2023.

2.28 Deputy R.J. Ward of St. Helier Central of the Minister for Housing and Communities regarding benchmarking of rental properties (WQ.109/2023)

Question

Will the Minister provide details of his benchmark figure for 80% of market rate for rental of –

(a) a studio flat;

(b) one-bedroom flat;

(d) a two-bedroom house; and

(e) a three-bedroom house?

Answer

The Minister for Housing and Communities does not set benchmark figures for the 80% market rate for rental of the property types/sizes referenced in the question.

The social housing suppliers are subject to the Social Rents Housing Policy, which caps social rents at up to 80% of the market rate, and they ensure that the rents they charge comply with the social rents cap.

2.29 Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier Central of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding community alarms (WQ.110/2023)

Question

Will the Minister provide details on what targets, if any, there are for increasing the take up of community alarms amongst patients for whom such devices provide a measure of security in the event of a fall or other incident in the home and if there are no such targets, will she advise why not; and will she further advise whether she considers the increase in monthly fee for the service could have an adverse effect on take up of the alarms, and if she does not consider this to be the case, why not?

Answer

Currently, we have a total of 1003 Islanders who have a community alarm. Of these, 892 are Islanders who have transitioned from the old analogue system to the new digital UMO system. Since July 2022 there have been 202 new service users. 91 have been removed from the system due to death or admission into a care home. This demonstrates an increase in take up overall.

There is no set target for the number of Islanders having a community alarm as to have an alarm is largely a personal choice. Islanders can either self-refer for an alarm or be referred by a health professional. There is no target for increasing the take up of community alarms as the uptake of alarms is difficult to predict, this is because the number enrolled will always fluctuate due to the reasons outlined above.

We do not believe that the increase in cost will deter Islanders from taking up an alarm, as those who are eligible for income support will continue to obtain this free. The cost of our community alarm is less than that provided by our on-island competitor and the figures demonstrate that there is a continued increase in uptake of alarm systems.

2.30 Deputy G.P. Southern of St. Helier Central of the Minister for Social Security regarding maintenance income (WQ.111/2023)

Question

Given the Minster’s pledge to review all benefits for which she is responsible, will she commit to an examination of the rules governing maintenance income under the Income Support system, where payments received as maintenance are included as income, but only 25% of this maintenance income is disregarded in Income Support calculation, and if she will not agree to review this position, will she advise why not?

Answer

Although not specifically mentioned, it is assumed that the question relates to the commitment in my ministerial plan to undertake “…a high-level review across all benefit areas to identify areas where action is required in 2023”.

I have completed the high-level review. The next stage is to confirm the areas where action will be undertaken in 2023. This will be complete in early April. At that time, I will be able to confirm whether the treatment of maintenance income is to be included in the 2023 work schedule.

The Income Support calculation ignores a percentage of each pound of income, currently 26% (not 25% as suggested in the question).

This means that a household who gets £100 weekly income sees their benefit decrease by £74 and is therefore £26 a week better off. This system is used in most benefit systems that are similar to Income Support.

2.31 Deputy R.S. Kovacs of St. Saviour of the Minister for Infrastructure regarding consultants on highway matters (WQ.112/2023)

Question

Will the Minister confirm if any non-resident consultants have been employed from 2018 to date to advise on ‘highway matters’; and if any such consultants have been employed, will she provide –

(a) the cost of the consultants, broken down by year;

(b) to whom these payments were made; and

Answer

The Government’s Highways Section needs to employ the services of specialist engineering professionals to help undertake highway infrastructure asset management and works. This gives the Island access to expertise that is not available on-island or within the current team. The support is currently provided by WSP Limited through the Jersey Highways Partnership Framework Contract. This is a rolling five-year framework that is procured in accordance with the Government’s Public Finance Manual.

(a) The question relates to a single supplier and the contract is shortly due to be re-tendered. As agreed with the Deputy, I can confirm that the services have been provided at a cost of £3.5 million over the five-year period.

(b) WSP

Highways maintenance schemes
Highways and cycleways
Highway drainage
Bridge structures
Vehicle restraint systems
Highway lighting
Footway and accessibility improvements (crossings etc.)
Traffic management schemes

2.32 Deputy S.Y. Mézec of St. Helier South of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding the Senior Leadership Team at the General Hospital (WQ.113/2023)

Question

In relation to the Senior Leadership Team at the General Hospital, will the Minister advise whether all posts are presently filled by permanent staff members who are currently working in those roles, and, if not, which roles are currently filled by non-permanent members of staff or a more junior staff member in an acting capacity?

Answer

All roles, bar one, in the Health Senior Leadership Team are filled by permanent staff members. The one role filled on an Acting Up basis is the Director of Clinical Services role. The recruitment for a permanent appointment to this role is underway and the application date for the role closed on 16 March 2023.

As announced on 16 March, there will be two senior departures within HCS’ Senior Leadership Team on the 31 March [2]. Although these roles are not covered by an acting capacity, I can confirm that from an operational perspective deputising arrangements are in place. These will be in place until interim arrangements, which will be put in place in time for the departures, are made.

2.33 Deputy L.V. Feltham of St. Helier Central of the Minister for Social Security regarding the rent increases made by providers of social homes that receive tenants via the Affordable Housing Gateway (WQ.114/2023)

Question

Regarding the rent increases made by providers of social homes that receive tenants via the Affordable Housing Gateway, will the Minister please provide the following information –

(a) what process of review, if any, is undertaken regarding tenants in receipt of the Income Support housing component, and does the component automatically increase to cover any rent increase;

(b) what additional funding will be required from the Social Security fund to cover any increases;

(c) was the Minister consulted on the matter by any provider ahead of the increases being made, if so, did she raise any concerns; and

(d) has she attempted to contact people receiving Income Support to ensure that they know of what steps they must take, if any, following a rent increase?

Answer

The question is not specifically related to any particular provider, nor to any period in time. I am therefore assuming it refers to the increase recently announced by the Jersey Homes Trust. Like other Members, I was concerned to learn about the increase in Jersey Homes Trust rents. I am very grateful to the Minister for Housing and Communities for his prompt action in contacting the Trust and obtaining their equally prompt agreement to a one-month delay in the implementation of the new rents.

a) For social housing tenants, the Income Support accommodation component will be increased as soon as an increase of rent is notified to Customer and Local Services. This can be by the landlord or the tenant. Any increase is implemented from the date it came into force. The component is increased individually for each income support tenant in respect of the particular property rented.

b) Income support payments are not made from the Social Security Fund. The overall income support budget is set as part of the Government Plan process. The overall budget is set in line with economic forecasts which take account, at a high level, of forecast changes to IS claims during the year. This will include rent increases. At this stage it is not anticipated that any extra funding will be required across the year as a whole. Any requirement for extra funding will depend on a wide range of economic factors over the coming months.

c) The Government has a rent review agreement with Andium Homes and there is a well established route for annual rent rises on Andium properties to be confirmed with the Housing Minister and to be advised in advance to the CLS department. The government does not have rent review agreements with other social housing providers. Different providers use a variety of methods to advise CLS of rent changes. The Minister for Social Security is not involved in this process, and therefore was not consulted or notified ahead of the recent JHT announcement.

d) Every written communication to Income Support claimants includes advice to households about what they should do if their rent changes. Claimants can call, email or write to Customer and Local Services and changes can be made quickly and easily. With regard to the recently announced increases, Customer and Local Services are actively seeking to contact any customers who haven’t already been in contact with the department directly.

2.34 Deputy L.V. Feltham of St. Helier Central of the Minister for Infrastructure regarding extending the Avanchi Access Concessionary Bus Pass Scheme for Jersey residents with a prescribed long-term disability (WQ.115/2023)

Question

Further to the response to Oral Question 109/2022, will the Minister advise whether he has undertaken any work in relation to extending the Avanchi Access Concessionary Bus Pass Scheme for Jersey residents with a prescribed long-term disability, to people whose disability does not prevent them from driving and, if so will he outline the work undertaken to date and the next steps; and, if not, why not?

Answer

The work in relation to extending the Avanchi Access travel pass scheme is due to commence during the second quarter of 2023. It is my intention that a preliminary review be scheduled as the first step to consider the existing benefits which are available and the extent to which the travel pass scheme might be modified. The work has been affected by the availability of officers and competing pressures on their time.

3. Oral Questions

The Bailiff:

Very well, in which case there are a number of answers to written questions that have been lodged and we now come on to oral questions with notice.

3.1 Deputy M.R. Scott of the Chief Minister regarding the Connect I.T. Budget (OQ.57/2023)

Given that £57 million of the Connect I.T. (information technology) budget has been spent on consultants and staff compared to £6 million spent on licences and software for Government’s new procurement I.T. system, does the Chief Minister consider that greater technical knowledge is required within the Government workforce to adequately run and procure I.T. projects, and if so, what actions are being taken to address this?

Deputy A. Curtis of St. Clement (Assistant Chief Minister - rapporteur):

The Deputy has allowed for me to answer this. Lessons have been learnt by this Government and a maturing approach has been taken to simplify procurement. What we are doing is we are looking to take more control of programmes into Government so that we can provide a greater steer and more value to the citizens of Jersey. This approach is to use more internal business resources and technical expertise and we have evidenced this in the way that we have run different programmes more recently, including the procurement of the electronic patient record system, which is using a greater amount of S.M.E.s (small and medium enterprises) expertise from health staff and specialist consultants. Recently, under my instruction, we have changed the procurement method of the record transformation programme. We have moved away from the procurement of a single consortia to an approach that allows us to run as a Government the procurement of smaller consultancies and staff to allow Government to choose what it needs and to build long-term capability in this field. Commercial services have run specific events to educate on-Island suppliers and partners in the way in which the Government of Jersey manages and procures its I.T. and we are running a service, which is a 4-hour briefing this Wednesday, to encourage and to educate local I.T. procurement to help grow that area.

Deputy M.R. Scott:

I am not sure he has answered the question, the Deputy, in terms of is greater technical knowledge required within the Government workforce to adequately run and procure I.T. systems and, if so, what action is being taken to address this?

[10:45]

Deputy A. Curtis:

I feel I did answer that but I will be more specific. I have a lot of confidence in the team we have in our technical expertise. Large programmes are more than just the ability to understand the technical but it is also understanding the business requirements of a programme and it is a lot of the programme management beyond the technical expertise that we need. There have been a lot of lessons from how the former Government’s procurement of the Connect programme have taken place but it is as much about understanding requirements and running programmes as it is technical expertise. That said, we are ongoing on a range of work to grow how we standardise and understand technical delivery in Government. That includes part of looking at the restructure of the Modernisation and Digital Department to better reflect how to run a modern technical organisation, so in that I believe we are addressing the technical need and shaping a department fit for the future.

Deputy M.R. Scott:

I had a supplementary.

The Bailiff:

I thought that was your supplementary, Deputy.

Deputy M.R. Scott:

No, that was a clarification. That was a clarification of the last …

The Bailiff:

Well points of clarification do not arise during question time but if you had asked me for a ruling as to whether the first answer addressed your question, which you are able to do, then the answer is I would rule that probably it did not. So, yes, I will afford you a supplementary question.

3.1.1 Deputy M.R. Scott:

Could I just clarify with the Deputy in terms of his answer whether he is saying that more training of existing staff is being sought rather than recruitment of staff with more technical knowledge?

Deputy A. Curtis:

The answer is it is a bit of both. Training and the reskilling of our internal existing staff is essential, not just so that we can retain them but so that we can deliver more with the same team and a team that is really encouraged. One area where they are looking at staff training is within the area of enterprise architecture. The Government of Jersey follows the T.O.G.A.F. (The Open Group Architecture Framework) scheme. There are not many of those but there is ongoing work to skill internal resources in enterprise architecture as well as a range of other areas.

3.1.2 Deputy S.Y. Mézec of St. Helier South:

Is it the Assistant Minister’s assessment of this project to date, given the very large amounts of money that has been spent on it, that successive Governments were ripped off?

Deputy A. Curtis:

I thank the Deputy for his question. I think the Government has not been a very mature procurer of technology and programmes, as I referenced in my original answer. What we do need, as we move forward and as we mature, is to select partners and providers who understand that, who, when we tell them we are a learning organisation, respect that and are a trusting partner and a trusted adviser into Government who do not play us, to use more blunt words. I trust that we will be looking in procurement as intelligent customers for providers who have ours and the people of Jersey’s interests at heart and deliver and help us mature together.

3.1.3 Deputy S.Y. Mézec:

That sounded like a yes, I think. Can the Assistant Minister therefore explain to the Assembly what measures he will be putting in place to ensure that there is good value for money on any further spend that there is on updating the Government’s I.T. infrastructure to ensure that for the money we spend on it we get results and improvements in systems and improvements in how those who use it get to experience it? Could he enlighten the Assembly as to what measures he will be putting in place to deliver on that?

Deputy A. Curtis:

I thank the Deputy for his question. Can I come back to you on that one when I have some more information for you and I will answer your question directly?

The Bailiff:

“Can I come back to the Deputy on that matter.”

Deputy D. Warr:

Deputy, sorry. I will come back to the Deputy.

Deputy G.P. Southern:

Can he come back to that today or some other time? Because the question is about evidence now. I think he said …

The Bailiff:

Deputy, there should not be an exchange. The question related the Deputy to evidence. If you have available evidence now the answer is obviously available evidence. If you do not have it now the answer is: “I do not have it now”, presumably, “and I will come back to you with it.” Or come back to the Deputy with it, I should say.

Deputy D. Warr:

I will come back to the Deputy later.

3.4.5 Deputy C.S. Alves of St. Helier Central:

Following on from Deputy Southern’s question there, I can inform the Minister that just in the last week I have received and seen with my own eyes somebody who has been given a 12.7 per cent rent increase in the private sector by an estate agent obviously following the R.P.I. (retail price index) figures. Now, obviously this person is not getting a 12.7 per cent increase in their wages, so what advice would the Minister give for somebody facing something like this who will probably have to look at moving or other sources of funding to fund this massive increase in rent?

Deputy D. Warr:

I thank the Deputy for her question. I would suggest that that individual gets in touch with us directly, in touch with me directly, and we establish whether there is any support that can be given to this individual. Please can you request this particular individual to get in touch with me directly?

The Bailiff:

“Please could the Deputy.”

3.4.6 Deputy C.S. Alves:

Obviously this individual I have been able to advise and they would not fall under any kind of support from the Government due to their earnings. However, this is obviously being driven by the R.P.I. increases which estate agents seem to follow and build into contracts. So, what discussions, if any, is the Minister having with estate agents to maybe deter them from putting these increases in place, especially given that the R.P.I. figures are way above where they would normally be?

Deputy D. Warr:

I thank the Deputy for her question. I am not currently in discussion with any estate agents. Obviously it is a private sector market, they determine the increases that they are going to apply, and I do not think the Government could step in in those situations. But I just come back to the Deputy and say, please, we are always interested where extremes occur, or appear to be occurring, and I would very much like to hear the evidence of that because clearly this kind of activity will help us inform the law and get us a better law at the end of the day, which is what I think this Assembly wants.

Deputy S.Y. Mézec:

Am I not offered a final supplementary?

The Bailiff:

I beg your pardon. You are quite right, yes. Deputy Mézec, a final supplementary.

3.4.7 Deputy S.Y. Mézec:

It sounds like from the Minister’s answers that we are slowly, slowly, slowly getting there, so will the Minister take the opportunity, having heard from some of the examples like what Deputy Alves has just put to him, to say that it would be an appropriate measure to pass law that places a cap on how much rents can be increased in the private sector when there is no justification for rents going up to protect tenants from predatory behaviours when they are stuck in homes that they cannot leave and have no choice but to cough up when there is not support available for them through the income support system?

Deputy D. Warr:

I thank the Deputy for his question. I am afraid the answer is no, I am not going to step into the private sector and tell them what rents to charge.

[11:15]

This is why as a strategy we are, as a Government, building significant numbers of homes at the moment, despite some of the recent Planning Committee decisions, and that is about trying to get more homes out there to give more choice. I think by giving more choice, individuals will be able to get better offers and find themselves in better situations but, as I say, I am not about to go around capping private sector landlords.

3.5 Deputy C.S. Alves of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding issuance of sick notes (OQ.56/2023)

Will the Minister advise which hospital professionals can issue sick note certificates to patients and how, if at all, the issuance of certificates is monitored?

Deputy K. Wilson of St. Clement (The Minister for Health and Social Services):

I am not sure that I am able to understand that myself.

The Connétable of St. Brelade:

I am just clarifying the point of my question was that it is believed by many that the payment due to the Office of the Information Commissioner is purely red tape. Would the Minister confirm once again that he believes it is not red tape to pay £75 a year to that office?

Deputy K.F. Morel:

I believe that the protection of Islanders’ personal data is of the utmost importance; I believe it is tantamount to a human right. The only way to maintain the protection of Islanders’ personal data is to ensure that that data is regulated properly and that businesses that hold data … and organisations, it is not just businesses; the Government obviously is one of the largest holders of personal data. I believe, therefore, it is vital that we have a regulator that has the resources to be able to protect Islanders’ personal data.

3.7.4 Deputy S.Y. Mézec:

I remember instances in the past where Governments in the name of reducing red tape and bureaucracy in effect aimed to reduce employment protections for some businesses. Could the Minister assure us that he considers employment protections to be of the utmost importance and does not consider them in the same vein that the phrase “red tape” is used, as in this question?

Deputy K.F. Morel:

That is basically correct. The review that we are undertaking is looking principally at the processes, so it is not specifically looking at the regulations behind those processes. So the question we are asking is not so much is the regulation wrong, though that will be relevant from time to time. The question we are asking is: is the process involved in carrying out that regulation or imposing that regulation, is that process an appropriate process? So it can be something as simple as: why does it take 5 different visits to different web pages to secure this particular element of permission to start up a business? Why can that not be one web page instead of 5 separate web pages? Those are the areas we are looking at as opposed to the regulations themselves.

3.7.5 Deputy M. Tadier:

It is following on the issue about red tape and bureaucracy. Does the Minister have any thoughts, or is he aware of certain representations - and I will call them complaints - from some people in some sectors that find it very difficult to put on an event expediently? Does he have any thoughts on the triennial regulations which govern that, how it is constituted, and the fact that it could take maybe a 6-month lead-in period for somebody who has an idea to put on an event which could be fairly straightforward that they could be very experienced at organising? Does that constitute a form of red tape and bureaucracy that he might wish to get rid of or help?

Deputy K.F. Morel:

I agree with the Deputy that the current situation with regard to putting on events is an area of where the processes, in my view, could most likely be streamlined. Interestingly, if the Deputy was to ask a similar question to the Minister for Home Affairs on my left about the triennial regulations, I believe he would find someone who is very wanting to move beyond the situation where we bring in these triennial regulations every 3 years and, indeed, that is what we are going to be working towards. As I understand it, we want to move to a point where we do not have to renew the regulations every 3 years, and I am very happy to help in that work. I believe that the whole system for setting up events is something that we do need to look at because it is an onerous system with many different ports of call for event managers.

3.7.6 Deputy M. Tadier:

Where there is to be red tape or bureaucracy, does he think it is important that if we need it, and if it is to happen, that it should be implemented by politicians and not by the court? So does he have any concerns or comments on the fact that when it comes to things like minimum pricing of alcohol, which is a form of red tape, and maybe justifiable politically, that those kind of decisions should come from Government and politicians, not from a non-governmental body like a court official?

Deputy K.F. Morel:

I have some sympathy with that perspective but, while saying that, I am not convinced one way or the other. I am going to sit on the fence on this one for a little bit longer and understand the situation a bit longer but I do understand that line of argument, and I am very happy to look at the areas that the Deputy is referring to.

3.7.7 Deputy S.G. Luce:

When the Minister is talking about productivity and diversity, does he agree with me that we need a small Government, one that stands back rather than in the way, one that facilitates rather than dictates?

Deputy K.F. Morel:

Does the Minister feel that the new facility - the newish facility now - the Sexual Assault Referral Centre, will assist in those initial investigations and the gathering of evidence to enable more prosecutions to happen when these assaults have been happening to people?

Deputy H. Miles:

Thank you for the question. The Sexual Assault Referral Centre has already had an impact on the trust and confidence of victims coming forward. As the Deputy will know, the Sexual Assault Referral Centre does not necessarily lead to police involvement. It means that people can come forward and receive the necessary support and care and also evidence gathering in order to give them time to decide whether or whether not they would like to pursue a police investigation.

3.8.6 Deputy A. Curtis:

Would the Minister agree that this is a matter of some urgency and will she prioritise this matter?

Further to his answer to Written Question 1/2023, is it the Minister’s assessment that the Government should have a formal contractual arrangement with social housing providers; and if not, why not?

Deputy D. Warr (The Minister for Housing and Communities):

I thank the Deputy for her question. We obviously already have a formal contractual arrangement with Andium and the Government. I do want there to be formal arrangements for all social housing providers and last night’s meeting at the Parish Hall was a case in point and proves why there is a need for that. The Deputy will hopefully be pleased to know that I have already considered this matter. My officers have already spoken to the housing trusts about some of the issues that will form part of any arrangement. I hope the Deputy is assured that this issue is being addressed.

3.12.1 Deputy L.V. Feltham:

Is the Minister aware of the recommendation by an independent review of access to social housing in 2019 that there should be a statutory framework for allocations of social housing, which would also enable performance monitoring and the establishment of an independent regulator. Will he bring forward those recommendations as proposed?

Deputy D. Warr:

I am aware that efforts have been attempted before in this respect. Once again, my view is this is overcomplication of residential tenancy laws and what I am hoping to do is, when we have our White Paper and we have our in-committee debate and we bring the legislation in December to the Assembly, we will be able to encompass a lot of what the Deputy has just mentioned there. It is going to be up for discussion but I think it is going to be much more effective if we can have one overall umbrella set of legislation rather than disparate pieces of legislation, which has been the problem in this area for many decades.

3.12.2 Deputy S.Y. Mézec:

The Minister referred to formal arrangements that are in place between the Government and Andium Homes. One of those arrangements is that, no matter how high inflation gets, Andium’s rent increases are capped at 4 per cent. Does the Minister agree that a version of that arrangement at least should exist with the other social housing providers?

Deputy D. Warr:

As the Deputy is aware, we already have our social housing providers already capped with rents at 80 per cent of the market rate. In terms of the arrangement with regard to the annual increase in rents, that is an open discussion and it will form part of our review within the White Paper.

3.12.3 Deputy S.Y. Mézec:

It sounds like the Minister is open-minded on that subject, so would he confirm whether he would be content to have completely different arrangements exist for the government-owned social housing provider compared to the other providers where one would have their rent increases capped and the others would have a free-for-all so long as they remain within the overall cap?

Deputy D. Warr:

That is up for discussion. I would not like to pre-empt the outcome of the White Paper.

3.12.4 Deputy G.P. Southern:

Can the Minister tell us when we will see this White Paper? I have heard so much about it, I am riveted.

Deputy D. Warr:

I would like to think the next 2 to 3 weeks. That is my objective. So you can hold me to that one, but it is very imminent.

The Bailiff:

“The Deputy can hold me to that.”

Deputy D. Warr:

Sorry.

3.12.5 Deputy G.P. Southern:

Very imminent, it is a form of words that I do not trust. Can he say: “I will have it to you by a month’s time”?

Deputy D. Warr:

Yes.

3.12.6 Deputy L.V. Feltham:

Deputy Southern took my question but I do have another one. Given what we did hear from residents last night, is the Minister satisfied that the residents that are paying their rents to social housing providers are indeed getting good value for money and also that the taxpayer is getting good value for money for the subsidy that those providers are also getting in the form of social security payments?

Deputy D. Warr:

Are they getting good value for money? That is very difficult to determine. There is an objective assessment, without going through all the numbers and the costs and talking in depth to the housing associations, I simply do not have an answer to that question. Again these are discussions that are ongoing and obviously Deputy Southern is fully aware now that we will publish a White Paper in which those kind of discussions will be considered.

3.13 Deputy R.J. Ward of the Minister for Children and Education regarding schools inspections (OQ.47/2023)

Let us wait and see what the answer is. This is one of those questions, which will be very difficult for the Chair to make any kind of ruling on.

Deputy E. Millar (The Minister for Social Security):

I do not think the question sits with me. I am not engaged in employing doctors at the hospital.

Deputy M. Tadier:

It sits with the Minister insofar as I still think there is joint working between the Ministers in different departments.

[12:15]

The Bailiff:

Is this a supplemental question?

3.15.6 Deputy M. Tadier:

This is supplementary. I presume that the ultimate goal that this Minister and other Ministers are aiming at is to get access to G.P.s, which is affordable, and so that there is no barrier of cost for members of the public to access G.P.s, irrespective of where they might access them. So does the Minister think that one option would be to work collaboratively with the Minister for Health and Social Services and look at all options including whether G.P.s might be employed by government, possibly with some funding from her department, to allow access to a wider pool of G.P.s?

Deputy E. Millar:

I can confirm that the Minister for Health and Social Services and I are very much seeking to work collaboratively together and a Healthcare Reform Group has been established, of which I am a member. We have had some very early, preliminary meetings. But the question of how healthcare is provided, whether that is through doctors as private businesses or through the hospital, is a matter for that review and I maintain the view that it sits more correctly with the Minister for Health and Social Services and funding will follow that decision later.

3.15.7 Deputy S.Y. Mézec:

When the Assembly dealt with the matter of free G.P. visits for children that was done in the context of a Government Plan debate because of the financial implications of such a move. I would presume that to reduce the cost of seeing a G.P. for all adults in the Island will come with some fairly significant financial implications. Could the Minister therefore inform us what kind of debate she anticipates the Assembly having to hold to authorise the payment for such a deal and would that come either in a Government Plan or before a Government Plan?

Deputy E. Millar:

I believe I have the powers to make the increase and that the States will not be necessarily asked to debate it. I have not got as far as considering how the changes are made but I had not assumed that the States had to approve it. The funding will come from the Health Insurance Fund. Again, I can only repeat that the review is in hand, this is being done pending the longer-term review of healthcare funding, which is being conducted under the auspices of the Minister for Health and Social Services.

3.16 Deputy S.G. Luce of the Minister for Infrastructure regarding the Bridging Liquid Waste Strategy (OQ.42/2023)

Further to the briefing given to the Environment, Housing and Infrastructure Scrutiny Panel regarding the Bridging Liquid Waste Strategy 2023-2026, will the Minister advise when he intends to publish this document?

Deputy T. Binet (The Minister for Infrastructure):

I thank the Deputy for his question. I am sure he will have further questions to ask me but, like my previous question, this is quite narrow in scope so I think I will just start by answering it by saying that we are looking to publish this as soon as possible, hopefully the first 10 days of April.

3.16.1 Deputy S.G. Luce:

Does the Minister appreciate that the Infrastructure Scrutiny Panel is waiting to start a review into this subject?

Deputy T. Binet:

I certainly do. I can only apologise, it is a little bit delayed, it is a little bit behind schedule, but I just would remind the Deputy that we have a department that is slightly under-resourced in terms of cash and human resources and that they are very competent people in there, they are working as hard as they can to get the exercise completed.

3.17 Deputy L.V. Feltham of the Minister for Social Security regarding the Social Security Fund (OQ.51/2023)

What direction, if any, has the Minister provided to the accountable officer for the Social Security Fund regarding the level and type of expenditure from the fund on administration work that is considered acceptable?

Deputy E. Millar (The Minister for Social Security):

Deputy H. Miles:

Yes, I agree. As far as I know the 1990 Act that set up that C.I.C.S. (Criminal Injuries Compensation Scheme) is not retrospective and those time limits are problematic for victims. In respect of the other question, I am hoping that it would probably be the first quarter of 2024 by the time we would have a draft scheme for probably scrutiny by the Scrutiny Panel. But I think I am right in saying it does not have to come before the Assembly for debate.

3.20 Deputy R.J. Ward of the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding facilities for adults with learning difficulties (OQ.48/2023)

Further to the decision by Les Amis to abandon their plans to build a new facility at the Hampshire Hotel, what actions is the Minister considering, if any, in relation to the provision of facilities for adults with learning difficulties?

Deputy K. Wilson (The Minister for Health and Social Services):

I am sorry, Sir. Could the Minister just clarify, was that a yes or a no? [Laughter]

The Bailiff:

I think the Deputy thinks that you perhaps do need to say a little more than that.

Deputy T. Binet:

If the Deputy wants more yes or no answers from me he will certainly get them; that is for sure.

The Bailiff:

Perhaps he could get one …

Deputy L.J. Farnham:

That is much clearer, Sir, thank you.

Deputy M. Tadier:

Sir, is that not a breach of the Standing Orders which requires Ministers to answer …

The Bailiff:

I was about to raise with the Minister, you have said that you will offer a yes or no answer. I was just wondering whether in the light of the Deputy’s question, is it a yes or a no?

Deputy T. Binet:

It is a yes, Sir.

The Bailiff:

Thank you very much. Very well. Is the adjournment proposed?

[12:45]

LUNCHEON ADJOURNMENT PROPOSED

The Bailiff:

It is a matter for the Assembly obviously. We will continue afterwards with the periods of questions to Ministers without notice. I see by the smile on the Minister for Economic Development, Tourism, Sport and Culture’s face that he will be in the hot seat for the Chief Minister. Is that correct?

Deputy K.F. Morel:

That is correct, Sir.

The Bailiff:

Then did you propose that we reverse the order, which the Assembly only changed for the purposes of accommodating the Chief Minister? I would suggest, if the Assembly agrees, we go back to the normal order where the Chief Minister speaks last, in effect.

Deputy K.F. Morel:

As the Assembly sees best.

The Bailiff:

Yes. There seems to be general positive response to that. After the question period then Deputy Tadier has a statement to make to the Assembly. Very well. We stand adjourned until 2.15 p.m.

LUNCHEON ADJOURNMENT

[14:16]

4. Questions to Ministers without notice - The Minister for Social Security

Deputy E. Millar:

I thank the Deputy for his question. The initial benefit review has been conducted and I have had several meetings with my team in the last 2 weeks to look at the outcome of that and to identify areas where we would like to make changes over the course of this year. We have identified quite a number of aspects, including - I have mentioned already - the asset and income disregards but there are individual benefits that we do want to review. We will be trying to do that on a basis throughout the year; I am not going to wait until the end of the year. We have identified a few things that we can do very quickly and I will be looking to do those things just as soon as I can. Other items will need to be scheduled because I have to recognise both of the resources within the department to do additional work because, as I have said, we do have some significant projects this year. The happy fact, perhaps the outcome of the review is that it means I want to increase a lot of benefits, the rates; that will cost money. We do also have to ensure that we have a sustainable funding for these increases that I would like to make. That may be as little as increasing rates that have not changed for some time, to just redoing certain benefits altogether, so it is very much on track.

4.8.1 Deputy L.J. Farnham:

If I could just push the Minister slightly, and it is welcome news that progress is being made, but when can she estimate that she will be able to get support to those who desperately need it, given the ongoing economic circumstances?

Deputy E. Millar:

Many of the initiatives in the Government’s mini-Budget last year remain in place. The Community Costs Bonus remains open for claims.

[14:30]

The parental support payment has not had the take up that we hoped but we extended the claim period for that to the end of March. Families with under 5 years’ residency just about have time to come forward and make a claim for that payment. The quick things we will do, for example, in terms of helping, I am aware that Home Carer’s Allowance, just for one example, at present if a family has one child who has a relatively significant disability at level P3, the parent may receive a Home Carer’s Allowance for that child. If the parent has 2 children at P2 for whom the care needs may be even more significant than one child at P3, at present the parent will not receive Home Carer’s Allowance. We will be looking to amend that so that where a family is caring for 2 children with disabilities - that may come in to older relatives - we will give them Home Carer’s Allowance, so that is one example. We will also just keep an eye on our benefits and we will be asking the Employment Forum to review the minimum wage in the coming months from January. We are also working on a new version of the Community Costs Bonus, which will come into play in the autumn of this year.

The Bailiff:

An extremely, potentially, quick question, Deputy Southern.

4.9 Deputy G.P. Southern:

Has the Minister examined the Ethical Care Charter with a view to its application in Jersey?

Deputy E. Millar:

I am not aware that the Ethical Care Charter sits with me. I think I am responsible for funding but not the performance of the carers. I think that really sits with the Minister for Health and Social Services.

The Bailiff:

Very well, I am afraid that brings the period of question to this Minister to an end.

5. Questions to Ministers without notice - The Minister for Treasury and Resources

5.1 Deputy R.J. Ward:

In fact it does have to be a question.

The Connétable of St. Lawrence:

I would like the Minister to say whether or not he shares my concern.

The Bailiff:

I think as representative shareholder that is a legitimate question for you, Minister.

Deputy I.J. Gorst:

I am being put rather in an impossible position when I know that government officials have recommended approval for an application. But Members of this Assembly, as is their legitimate or lawful ability, have made a decision. I would and I think this is why the Minister for the Environment is now consulting on minimum standards. Because as a general policy position, the Government would like to see larger units but there are consequences to larger units, as the Minister for Housing and Communities has said, and that is that they generally, as a general rule, cost more. We are trying to keep in tension those 2 elements.

5.5 Deputy S.Y. Mézec:

I had a planned question but I am going to scrap it, so we can keep on this line because the Minister simply has not answered the question that was put to him in the vein that the Constable intended it to. The planning application request from the S.o.J.D.C. (States of Jersey Development Company) contained 13 per cent of homes that fell beneath minimum standards. He, as shareholder representative, could if he wanted to say to that entity: “I do not want you to propose any apartments that fall beneath those minimum standards”; that is a separate matter to what the Planning Committee does or does not decide. Is he prepared to issue that instruction to the States-owned body that exists to pursue the aims that we set it to produce homes that are fit for purpose to live in by the planning rules that this Assembly has created?

Deputy I.J. Gorst:

We now are entering somewhere which you have ruled is perfectly legitimate but I am happy to go there. I am happy to say, as a general rule, I think that government-owned entities should be complying with the minimum standards. But of course in this instance the States of Jersey Development Company had an application which was previously rejected by the then planning panel. They were instructed to go away and remove height from that building; there were consequences of making those decisions. There are consequences to developers, whether they are government-owned or not, of the decisions that a planning panel make. Perhaps it is a little bit difficult for Members now to criticise S.o.J.D.C. when they responded to the decisions of the then planning panel and they will now have to respond to the planning decisions of the now planning panel. I am prepared to work with them around trying to ensure that they do meet those minimum requirements, which may indeed be increasing, and if that is the case we will work on those as well. But there are consequences to housing supply, to the cost of housing of the decisions of the planning panel and we cannot avoid that.

5.5.1 Deputy S.Y. Mézec:

This is not about the Planning Applications Committee, this is about the instructions that he, as the shareholder representative, gives to this publicly-owned developer. Will he take this as an opportunity, as that shareholder representative, to go into the officers of the S.o.J.D.C. - I presume he is welcome there, given that it is the States of Jersey Development Company and not a private company - and say to them: “Now that this application has been rejected can you go back to the drawing board,? You must come back with proposals in which not one single property should fall beneath the minimum space standards that this Assembly has approved”?

Deputy I.J. Gorst:

Of course I am more than happy to do that. Normally the S.o.J.D.C. would attend upon the Minister, not the other way round. It is very important that these companies understand who it is that is the shareholder representative and not the Ministers who are running around attendant upon them, rather the other way round. But let us be clear of the consequences of such decisions, which I am happy to make on behalf of shareholder in this Assembly; no problem at all. But we must hold in tension that space costs money and that feeds directly into the cost of those units.

5.6 Deputy G.P. Southern:

Is it the case that the Minister for Treasury and Resources wishes to ignore our wish to create living spaces which are the right size to improve people’s well-being and improve their health because that has been proven before?

[14:45]

Deputy I.J. Gorst:

I am not sure how the Deputy reaches that conclusion from the answer I just gave, which was that I would go back to the States of Jersey Development Company, say that the expectation of myself, as shareholder representative, and this Assembly is that they meet minimum standards.

5.6.1 Deputy G.P. Southern:

Is he prepared to go back in and say meet greater standards?

Deputy I.J. Gorst:

Sir, I do not know if you are enjoying this but I certainly am. [Laughter]

The Bailiff:

You can tell by the frown on my face …

Deputy I.J. Gorst:

Yes, I think I can. As I have already said, the Minister for the Environment is consulting upon increasing minimum standards. If that consultation says that minimum standards should be increased, then of course I will revert back to both of those arm’s length bodies that are involved in providing housing, at least we hope they are both involved in providing housing. From some of the questions today I suspect that some Members do not want one of them to provide any houses but we will deal with that on another occasion, that they meet the requirements that are expected by the Minister for the Environment and by this Assembly and, therefore, by the shareholder.

The Bailiff:

I am afraid there is only about 15 seconds to go, so that brings the period of questions to this Minister to an end.

6. Questions to Ministers without notice - The Chief Minister

Deputy G.P. Southern:

Is that something you can rule on?

The Bailiff:

No, it is a legitimate answer to a question for a Member to say I am not prepared to answer that question; the consequences can only be political.

Deputy G.P. Southern:

Deputy M.R. Le Hegarat:

It is a well-known fact that we cannot really build any further developments. Yes, it is, it is a fact, that we have got a problem with our sewerage works. At the moment we would not be able to provide further housing and people are being stopped from having connections in relation to it. I am asking, what discussions have happened within the Council of Ministers about the sewerage and drain works that we currently have?

The Bailiff:

Does that assist in clarifying?

Deputy K.F. Morel:

That does, Sir, thank you.

The Bailiff:

There may be time for just the one answer.

Deputy K.F. Morel:

The Council of Ministers have been briefed on drainage from the Infrastructure Department but I must admit that I would prefer to contradict the Deputy’s assertions that there is this crisis and it is not possible to build because of such a crisis. I believe very strongly that the Minister for Infrastructure is working with his department to make sure that Jersey has the infrastructure it needs. Infrastructure though, I have to say, has not been invested in properly by previous Governments but this Government is trying to rectify that and deliver an infrastructure for this Island that enables the population to live properly and enables the economy to grow properly. I do not accept the assertion by the Deputy but if she would like more information about sewerage and drainage works in the Island, I believe the Minister for Infrastructure will be very pleased to brief her on that.

STATEMENTS ON A MATTER OF OFFICIAL RESPONSIBILITY

7. Deputy M. Tadier will make a statement regarding the ‘Mois de la Francophonie 2023’

The Bailiff:

That brings the period of questions to the Chief Minister to an end. We now move to item K. Le Député Tadier a une déclaration à faire au sujet de l’Assemblée Parlementaire de la Francophonie. Monsieur le Député.

7.1 Deputy M. Tadier:

Merci, Monsieur le Président. Chaque année le mois de mars est marqué comme le Mois de la Francophonie; et hier, le 20 mars, c’était la Journée Internationale de la Francophonie. En tant que Président de la Section de Jersey de l’Assemblée Parlementaire de la Francophonie, je voudrais donc profiter de cette occasion de souligner l’importance de notre adhésion à cette organisation internationale et de nos liens au monde francophone. Vu l’importance historique et culturelle du français à Jersey, l’Assemblée des Etats de Jersey fait partie de l’APF depuis 1980. Cette organisation internationale engage et met en œuvre des actions dans les domaines de la coopération interparlementaire et du développement de la démocratie. La promotion de la francophonie (même le multilinguisme) et l’enseignement du français font partie aussi de ses objectifs. On a vu que le Gouvernement actuel s’est engagé à renforcer nos liens avec le monde francophone et surtout la France, notre voisin. A cet égard, je voudrais saluer la décision récente qui permettra aux touristes français de visiter l’Ile en utilisant leur carte d’identité. Pour ma part, et avec mes collègues du comité exécutif, je continuerai à promouvoir notre adhésion à l’A.P.F. et nos liens avec le monde francophone. Pendant ce Mois de la Francophonie, j’invite donc tous les membres de cette Assemblée à faire pareillement et à s’engager au renforcement de ces liens avec la France, l’APF et le monde francophone et à la promotion des principes démocratiques qui nous lient.

Now in English, each year March is celebrated as a French-speaking day or Francophonie, and the month is the month of the Francophonie. Yesterday, 20th March, was International Francophonie Day. As President of the Jersey branch of the Assemblée Parlementaire de la Francophonie, I would, therefore, like to take this opportunity to highlight the importance of our membership to this international organisation and our links with the French-speaking world. Given that the historical and cultural importance of French in Jersey and the States Assembly as being a member of the A.P.F. (Assemblée Parlementaire de la Francophonie) since 1980, this international organisation initiates and implements actions in the areas of inter-parliamentary co-operation and democratic development. The promotion of French-speaking and indeed multilingualism and the teaching of French also forms part of its aims. We have seen the current Government undertake to reinforce links with French speaking countries in the French speaking world and in particular our neighbour, France. In that regard I would like to pay tribute to the recent decision that will allow French day-trippers to visit the Island using their identity cards. As for me, with my colleagues of the Executive Committee I will continue to promote our membership of the A.P.F. and our links with the francophone world. During this Mois de la Francophonie I will, therefore, invite all Members of the Assembly to do likewise and to commit themselves to strengthening our links with France, the A.P.F. and the French speaking world, and to the promotion of democratic ideals that bind us.

The Bailiff:

Thank you very much, Deputy. There is a period now of 15 minutes in which any Member can ask questions of the Deputy on the subject matter of his statement.

7.1.1 Deputy K.F. Morel:

Merci. Je voudrais poser la question au Président de l’APF à Jersey ; pourquoi est-ce qu’il pense que la francophonie est importante pour l’Ile de Jersey ? Parce qu’il y a beaucoup de personnes qui pensent que, oui on parle anglais et ça suffit. Pourquoi est-ce que c’est si important de parler français ici à Jersey ?

For other Members I was just asking why does the Deputy feel that French speaking is important in Jersey, because there are many people who just think: “Well, we just speak English now, so be it.” So why is it important to be able to speak French in Jersey?

Deputy M. Tadier:

J’estime que de nos jours on entend de plus en plus l’anglais qui est une langue universelle presque. Mais par contre pour Jersey ça reste une langue très importante non seulement linguistique, sociale mais culturelle et historiquement et aussi ça sert à nous rapprocher avec la France parce que nos cousins, je vais dire nos cousins et cousines, qui habitent juste à côté en Normandie, ou plus loin, ils apprécient beaucoup Jersey et le fait qu’on n’est pas anglais ; on est un peu diffèrent ; on n’est pas tout à fait français non plus mais ils apprécient ça chez nous et il faut qu’on développe ça.

I would say in English that there is a utilitarian argument as well that is put forward that if you have a universal language you might as well just use that. But I think that does not take into account that Jersey has been a trilingual Island for many centuries, and now we are a multilingual Island and we need to celebrate all language, including French. If we are not protective of our history and culture, which includes French and Jèrriais alongside English, then we cannot expect others to do that.

7.1.2 Deputy K.F. Morel:

Et aussi si on pense au Parlement du CPA, Commonwealth Parliamentary Association et l’APF est peut-être le voisin secondaire du CPA. Est-ce qu’il pense qu’il sera possible de rectifier cette inégalité.

I am just asking, the C.P.A. (Commonwealth Parliamentary Authority) is often seen as the primary kind of international body for this Assembly, but the A.P.F. we have been members of for many years and so does he see it as useful and important to address this inequality between the 2?

Deputy M. Tadier:

Oui, je suis tout à fait d’accord. Moi, j’ai dit pendant mon discours quand j’ai postulé pour ce poste que je voulais plus de parité entre le CPA et l’APF. Les deux organisations, tout à fait, sont important pour notre Assemblée et pour les parlementaires parce que ça nous donne des liens avec les deux mondes si vous voulez : le monde anglophone et le monde francophone.

It is really important - and I have said it previously when I was standing for this position - that this is not about competition between the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and our organisation, but I want to see more parity. The membership of the A.P.F. gives us access to a whole new francophone world includes countries in most continents, so not just France but obviously beyond, and not just francophone countries either, they are many observer countries and associate members which include 25 on top of the 56 section members. It means we can broaden our horizons about what they do in those parliaments and in those countries.

7.1.3 Deputy R.S. Kovacs of St. Saviour:

Can the Deputy please say what is the value provided by organisations such as the Alliance Française and Maison de la Normandie?

Deputy M. Tadier:

No, that is all right. I thought you were going to make a speech about your resignation ...

Deputy R.J. Ward:

No, absolutely not, no.

The Bailiff:

... which would have been pushing it a little bit.

Deputy R.J. Ward:

The joke about the sewage works was enough, Sir.

APPOINTMENT OF MINISTERS, COMMITTEES AND PANELS - resumption

8. Nominations for members of the Health and Social Security Scrutiny Panel

The Bailiff:

It seems to me that it was possible we would have dealt with it this morning, we have afforded Deputy Ward an opportunity and, therefore, if you wish to deal with the election of members of the panel to which you have been elected as chair I do not see any difficulty at this point.

Deputy R.J. Ward:

If I can indulge in that, Sir?

The Bailiff:

Yes, please do.

No, Sir.

The Bailiff:

Very well. We move then to Second Reading. How do you wish to propose in Second Reading, Minister?

9.2 Deputy I.J. Gorst:

I will propose it en bloc and, as I said, part 1 removes the power to implement E.U. sanctions provisions by Ministerial Order. Part 2 and 3 provide amendments to the S.A.F.L law to allow compliance with the Financial Action Task Force purposes and to provide greater reporting abilities. They also provide amendments to the extraterritorial extent which, if Members have read, I think they will see as perfectly reasonable. As I have said, I will seek to endeavour to answer any questions that Members may have.

The Bailiff:

Are the articles seconded for Second Reading? [Seconded] Does any Member wish to speak on the articles or any of them in Second Reading? If no Member wishes to speak then I close the debate. Those in favour of adopting ...

Deputy I.J. Gorst:

May I call for the appel, Sir?

The Bailiff:

The appel is called for. I invite Members to return to their seats. The vote is on the adoption of the articles in Second Reading, and I ask the Greffier to open the voting. If Members have had the opportunity of casting their votes then I ask the Greffier to close the voting. The articles have been adopted in Second Reading: 43 votes pour, no votes contre, no abstentions.

POUR: 43	CONTRE: 0	ABSTAIN: 0
Connétable of St. Helier
Connétable of St. Lawrence
Connétable of St. Brelade
Connétable of Trinity
Connétable of St. Peter
Connétable of St. Martin
Connétable of St. John
Connétable of St. Clement
Connétable of Grouville
Connétable of St. Ouen
Connétable of St. Mary
Connétable of St. Saviour
Deputy G.P. Southern
Deputy M. Tadier
Deputy S.G. Luce
Deputy M.R. Le Hegarat
Deputy S.M. Ahier
Deputy R.J. Ward
Deputy C.S. Alves
Deputy I. Gardiner
Deputy I.J. Gorst
Deputy L.J. Farnham
Deputy S.Y. Mézec
Deputy Sir P.M. Bailhache
Deputy T.A. Coles
Deputy B.B.de S.V.M. Porée
Deputy D.J. Warr
Deputy H.M. Miles
Deputy M.R. Scott
Deputy J. Renouf
Deputy C.D. Curtis
Deputy L.V. Feltham
Deputy R.E. Binet
Deputy H.L. Jeune
Deputy M.E. Millar
Deputy A. Howell
Deputy T.J.A. Binet
Deputy M.R. Ferey
Deputy R.S. Kovacs
Deputy B. Ward
Deputy K.M. Wilson
Deputy L.K.F. Stephenson
Deputy M.B. Andrews

Do you propose the articles in Third Reading, Minister?

Deputy I.J. Gorst:

If I may, Sir, thank you.

The Bailiff:

Are the articles seconded for Third Reading? [Seconded] Does any Member wish to speak on the adoption of this law in Third Reading? If no Member wishes to speak then I close the debate. All those in favour of adopting the law in Third Reading kindly show. Those against. The law is adopted in Third Reading.

ARRANGEMENT OF PUBLIC BUSINESS FOR FUTURE MEETINGS

The Bailiff:

That concludes the Public Business and we move now to the Arrangement for Future Business, and I invite the chair of P.P.C. to propose that arrangement for future meetings.

10. Connétable K. Shenton-Stone of St. Martin (Chair, Privileges and Procedures Committee):

The arrangement of public business; currently there are only 3 items on the Order Paper for the next sitting on April 18th. That is the Draft Endangered Species (C.I.T.E.S.) (Amendment) (Jersey) Law, Channel Islands Lottery Distribution of Proceeds, and Land Transaction under Standing Order 168(3) - Andium Homes Ltd Site, Kensington Place - sale to the public: deferral of approval. The sitting should take no longer than 2 days, however, please ensure that you keep the rest of the week as continuation days in case they are needed. Deputy David Warr, the Minister for Housing and Communities, has asked for an in-committee debate at the next Assembly and I ask for Deputy Warr to address the Assembly.

The Bailiff:

So we will not propose the adoption of Public Business until we know what the Deputy is going to ask of the Assembly. All right, please carry on then.

10.1 Deputy D. Warr:

I have referred today to the White Paper. I would like to request an in-committee debate on housing legislation for the first sitting after the Easter recess. I hope the Assembly accepts that.

The Bailiff:

That will be at the next sitting, which will be 18th April, yes. Do you wish to offer any further explanation? I mean, presumably this awaits the coming of a White Paper before there is going to be a debate; is that correct?

Deputy D. Warr:

Yes, Sir, and we are presenting the White Paper to our Scrutiny committee, I believe it is next week. I think we have made arrangements to show that to them and we will be having some meetings with Members as well over the coming weeks ahead of this debate.

The Bailiff:

Very well, so you are proposing that there is an in-committee debate on housing legislation?

Deputy D. Warr:

Yes, it is. It is to do with the Residential Tenancy Law.

The Bailiff:

Is it specifically on the Residential Tenancy Law?

Deputy D. Warr:

Correct.

[15:30]

The Bailiff:

So an in-committee debate on the Residential Tenancy Law for the sitting starting 18th April. Is that your proposition?

Deputy D. Warr:

The Deputy, I apologise. But I am disappointed with the Deputy’s response because the reality is we all want to achieve a better outcome for tenants and landlords in this Island and the whole point of a fit-for-purpose law is that we better the people of this Island, so that is why I am bringing this to this Assembly for further debate and more consultation.

Deputy G.P. Southern:

Sir, I did ask for a reason why the Minister should bring this proposition. I have heard no reason.

The Bailiff:

Minister, will you give way for a point of clarification I think was the interjection from Deputy Southern?

Deputy D. Warr:

No, Sir.

The Bailiff:

Right, there we are. Then do you call for the appel?

Deputy D. Warr:

I call for the appel.

The Bailiff:

Very well, I invite Members to return to their seats. The vote is on whether or not the States will have an in-committee debate on the Residential Tenancy Law at the sitting commencing 18th April, the first sitting after Easter, and I ask the Greffier to open the voting. If Members have had the opportunity of casting their votes then I ask the Greffier to close the voting. The proposition has been adopted: 31 votes pour, 13 votes contre, no abstentions.

POUR: 31	CONTRE: 13	ABSTAIN: 0
Connétable of St. Helier	Connétable of St. Brelade
Connétable of Trinity	Deputy G.P. Southern
Connétable of St. Peter	Deputy M. Tadier
Connétable of St. Martin	Deputy R.J. Ward
Connétable of St. John	Deputy C.S. Alves
Connétable of St. Clement	Deputy L.J. Farnham
Connétable of Grouville	Deputy S.Y. Mézec
Connétable of St. Ouen	Deputy Sir P.M. Bailhache
Connétable of St. Mary	Deputy T.A. Coles
Connétable of St. Saviour	Deputy B.B.de S.V.M. Porée
Deputy S.G. Luce	Deputy C.D. Curtis
Deputy L.M.C. Doublet	Deputy L.V. Feltham
Deputy K.F. Morel	Deputy R.S. Kovacs
Deputy M.R. Le Hegarat
Deputy S.M. Ahier
Deputy I. Gardiner
Deputy I.J. Gorst
Deputy D.J. Warr
Deputy H.M. Miles
Deputy M.R. Scott
Deputy J. Renouf
Deputy R.E. Binet
Deputy H.L. Jeune
Deputy M.E. Millar
Deputy A. Howell
Deputy T.J.A. Binet
Deputy M.R. Ferey
Deputy A.F. Curtis
Deputy B. Ward
Deputy K.M. Wilson
Deputy L.K.F. Stephenson
Deputy M.B. Andrews

Deputy D. Warr:

Could I ask for who voted contre please?

The Deputy Greffier of the States:

Those Members voting contre: the Connétable of St. Brelade, Deputies Southern, Tadier, Rob Ward, Alves, Farnham, Mézec, Bailhache, Coles, Porée, Catherine Curtis, Feltham and Kovacs.

The Bailiff:

In the light of the Assembly’s decision for the 18th, Connétable, do you propose the Public Business in the way you have described with the addition of the in-committee debate?

The Connétable of St. Martin:

Yes, I do propose the arrangement of business including the in-committee debate, thank you.

The Bailiff:

Do Members approve the conduct of business as set out by the chair of P.P.C. In which case that concludes the business of the Assembly and we stand adjourned until 18th April.

ADJOURNMENT

[15:39]

[1] figures are as of June for each year.

[2] ‘Senior departures announced at Health and Community Services (HCS)’, Press Notice, Gov.je. Accessed March 2023.